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Welcome to the groundbreaking Footprints Podcast, a vibrant series honouring the remarkable legacies of influential elders. Anchored in the study conducted by CivSource Africa on Executive Transitions and Succession planning, our commitment in response to the study recommendations is to document and tell stories of change, transition, and succession among leaders within the sector and beyond. The process seeks to glean lessons from those who have led and served before us. Join us on as we honour those who've paved the way and reflect on the legacies we aspire to leave behind!
- 16 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 11 _ Part 2 with Hon. Prof. Morris Ogenga Latigo
In this captivating follow up episode, we dive deeper into the life and legacy of Honourable Professor Morris Ogenga Latigo a leader whose resilience and compassion have profoundly impacted Ugandan politics and education. Prof. Latigo invites us to journey through his life, from growing up in Agago with his close-knit family to his rise in academia, where he inspired and supported young scholars on their paths.
As he reflects on advocating for Northern Uganda during challenging times, building critical infrastructure, and standing for truth amidst opposition, Prof. Latigo offers wisdom on leadership: “What marked your time?” and “You cannot force a person to change by demonizing them.” He shares the weight of choices in leadership: “We have chaos and choice both in our hands.” Through metaphors like “weighing sugar in the dark” and “lessons from the flat-topped acacia, pine trees, and equatorial forest,” he reminds us of nature’s guidance and possibilities.
Now retired and turning to agriculture, Prof. Latigo continues to sow seeds of progress. His message to today’s leaders is clear: embrace mentorship, openness, and change, for “true leadership lies in the legacy we leave behind.”
Listen in to be inspired by a journey that transcends titles, showing how one life can fuel a brighter future for generations.
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©Blurb written by Divine Karungi
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership
Fri, 08 Nov 2024 - 37min - 15 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 11 _ Part 1 with Hon. Prof. Morris Ogenga Latigo
This episode of the Footprints Podcast features the inspiring journey of Honorable Professor Morris Ogenga Latigo, whose life story embodies the power of transformation when courageous individuals take action. With warmth and humility, he shares the highs and lows of his career, offering words of wisdom for leaders in every capacity.
Born in 1952, in Agago, Professor Morris grew up deeply connected to his parents. He fondly recalls the love and lessons they imparted, his mother’s special dish, "malakwang," and the early sense of responsibility he learned from working alongside his father in the family shop. These simple, yet meaningful moments laid the foundation for his later success.
A brilliant student, Professor Morris advanced quickly, skipping primary one and excelling in his studies. He thrived at Sir Samuel Baker Secondary School and later pursued Crop Science at university. His passion for knowledge led him to earn a Master’s in Zoology from the University of Nairobi and a PhD, propelling him into academia where he quickly rose to head the Faculty of Agriculture at Makerere University.
But what truly stands out is not just his academic achievements, but his heart for others. Professor Morris took it upon himself to support his students, even personally funding the education of three who are now proud successors in academia. His commitment to empowering others extended far beyond the classroom. He used a grant to build the first dormitory for girls in Saint Charles College Kalongo, opening doors for future generations.
Before he ever entered elective politics, Professor Morris was already advocating for his people. His articles, such as ‘Why must the Acholi suffer so much?’ during the dark times of the Atiak Massacre, demonstrated his belief that leadership isn’t about holding a title it’s about standing up for those in need. This same dedication later saw him serve as the Member of Parliament for Agago North County, where he worked tirelessly to bring electricity to underserved regions, among other achievements.
As one of the founders of the Forum for Democratic Change (FDC) and later as the Leader of the Opposition, Professor Morris’s leadership was marked by integrity and truth. He didn’t shy away from telling it like it was, whether exposing gaps in Universal Primary Education (UPE) or holding the government accountable on national revenue. He always did so with a calm, level-headed approach that inspired respect, even in the most challenging circumstances.
Upon retirement, Professor Morris found fulfillment in agriculture, a reminder that true leadership extends beyond the office. His story serves as a powerful example of how leaders can continue to thrive and make an impact long after they’ve transitioned from their formal roles.
In his reflections, Professor Morris emphasizes the importance of mentorship and openness to change, advising leaders to be "change ready." He believes a true legacy is one of progress, where the next generation builds on the foundation of those who came before them. His message is simple yet profound: leadership isn’t just about the here and now it’s about preparing others to carry the torch forward.
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©Blurb written by Divine Karungi
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership
Fri, 18 Oct 2024 - 37min - 14 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 10 | Faith, Fortitude, and Flourishing
In this episode of the Footprints podcast, Reverend Canon Diana Mirembe Nkesiga, known as Rev. D, shares her journey as a Christian leader and her reflections on retirement. She recounts how she transformed from a diffident girl into an outspoken woman of credence. Born Mirembe Barlow in Kabanyoro, Wakiso District, in 1960, to Hugo Edward Barlow and Mary Barlow, she attended Nakasero Primary School and later Gayaza High School in 1974, where she was given the name “Diana” by a classmate.
Rev. D’s leadership journey began when she was appointed class monitor in Senior One, learning responsibility and self-awareness through the mentorship of older girls in her Christian fellowships. She identified compassion and altruism as her fortes, which guided her throughout her life. She went on to become a teacher of English and Religious Education at Gayaza High School.
After the Bush War, many girls confided in her about their traumatic experiences, which left her distraught, as she had always taught them that God would be their protector—a belief that seemed inadequate during their time of need. Seeking solace in the scriptures, Rev. D found peace and hoped that the girls would also find healing from their past ordeals. This led her to pursue Theology at Bishop Tucker Theological College, becoming a deacon in 1991 and an ordained priest in the Anglican Church in 1994.
As a missionary in South Africa during the height of the HIV epidemic, Rev. D learned the importance of “The Listening Gospel,” realizing that leaders in the Church cannot simply judge from the pulpit but must listen and walk with the people. She became an advocate for people living with HIV, offering hope long before ARVs were introduced in Africa.
Upon returning to Uganda, Rev. D served as the Vicar of All Saints’ Cathedral Kampala from 2007 to 2018 and later as the Associate Chaplain at Saint Francis Chaplain Kabanyoro. However, her journey was not without challenges. She faced discouragement as an administrator and experienced secondary trauma from her work at the AIDS Haven, leading her to seek the support of a psychologist.
The most devastating trial of all was the death of her husband. Rev. D shares her grief as a woman, mother, and leader, initially engulfed in denial before coming to terms with this major life change. She retired from the clergy a few years after the COVID-19 pandemic.
Rev. D candidly discusses the fears surrounding transition, especially into retirement, including concerns about financial stability and asset maintenance in the absence of her husband. She had to make tough financial decisions, such as laying off employees at her retreat center to sustain her budget and focusing on her farm’s production levels. Reflecting on the setbacks she faced, she learned to distinguish constructive feedback from outright scorn, practice self-reflection, and find healthy coping mechanisms for her line of work.
Rev. D’s journey as a Christian woman is both uplifting and educational for young leaders, emphasizing the importance of discovering your gifts early, using them to transform lives in society, learning from challenges, planning carefully, and understanding that self-love is essential to serving others.
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©Blurb written by Divine Karungi
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership
Fri, 09 Aug 2024 - 1h 01min - 13 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 9 | Acts of Benevolence
If we all knew that one act of benevolence could mold altruistic leaders, we might sow those seeds more often, changing the world for the better. In this episode of the Footprints Podcast, we explore the life of Bruno Joseph Bwambale, a leader with a heart for his people. With his son, Francis Musinguzi, he shares his journey as a working man who triumphed despite many challenges.
From a humble background, Bruno lost his father at two and was raised by his mother, a cotton farmer. A devout Catholic, he excelled in school but sold fish to afford his education. Antonio Kibwana's generosity changed his life by paying his school fees. Fleeing the Rwenzururu Rebellion, he completed high school at Saint Mary’s College Kisubi.
Bruno faced further hardship with his mother’s death but advanced his education, earning a diploma in Cooperative Studies. He worked in Nyakatonzi Cotton Growers and the Uganda Corporate Central Union, where he promoted sustainable farming.
Running for political office in the 1980s, he faced religious discrimination but continued serving his community through church work and founding schools in Kasese. He also empowered women through the Saint Clare Women’s Group.
Recognized as the best farmer during President Milton Obote’s regime, Bruno studied farming at the University of Minnesota. He later helped local farmers establish their own farms.
Bruno's journey, marked by resilience and generosity, shows the importance of adaptability and selflessness in leadership. His life teaches us that leadership is about using opportunities to support the well-being of others.
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©Blurb written by Divine Karungi
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership #FootprintsPodcast #WomenInLeadership #Inspiration #Resilience
Fri, 12 Jul 2024 - 13min - 12 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 8 | Footprints of History: Learnings from Jjajja Rhoda's Journey | Part 2
"Understanding our history is crucial to knowing our present."
In this episode of Footprints, we delve into ninety-five years of rich experience and wisdom with Mrs. Rhoda Kalema, affectionately known as Jjajja Rhoda. She takes us through her extraordinary leadership journey, reflecting on her early life, political career, and relentless advocacy for women's rights. From her formative years growing up in a rapidly changing society, Jjajja Rhoda shares stories of resilience and determination, offering a unique perspective on the evolution of women's roles in both the political and social spheres.
Her insights into the political landscape of her time reveal a tapestry of challenges and triumphs, illustrating how her unwavering commitment to justice and equality shaped her path. As a trailblazer in advocating for women's rights, Jjajja Rhoda's tireless efforts have left an indelible mark on her community and beyond. Her stories are not just a recounting of past events but a testament to the power of faith, courage, and perseverance.
Throughout her journey, she emphasizes the importance of understanding our history to navigate the complexities of our present. Her unshakeable faith served as her anchor through numerous life changes, providing her with the strength to overcome obstacles and inspire others. Join us as we explore the profound lessons from Jjajja Rhoda's life, gaining invaluable insights into the enduring struggle for gender equality and the vital role of historical awareness in shaping our future.
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©Blurb written by Divine Karungi
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership #FootprintsPodcast #WomenInLeadership #Inspiration #Resilience
Fri, 21 Jun 2024 - 18min - 11 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 8 | Footprints of History: Learnings from Jjajja Rhoda's Journey
“If you do not know where you came from, you’ll never know where you are.” In this episode of Footprints, Mrs. Rhoda Kalema, also known as Jjajja Rhoda, shares her ninety-five years of experience and wisdom. She reflects on her early life, political and civil activism for women, and the unwavering faith that guided her through life's transitions. Born to Martin Luther Nsibirwa, the Katikiro of Buganda Kingdom, and Veronica Namuddu, she recalls the values they instilled in her: respect, honesty, practical decision-making, and the importance of education.
Jjajja Rhoda attended Gayaza High School before transferring to Kings College Buddo, becoming one of the first girls in Uganda's co-educational school. She was also the first girl to complete a commercial course in Uganda, later studying at Makerere College and passing the London Chamber of Commerce exams in London. She worked at Gayaza High School, then moved to London with her husband, William Kalema, where she earned a certificate in Social Studies at the University of Edinburgh.
Returning to Uganda, she served as a probation officer and worked with the Uganda Council of Women, contributing to significant milestones for women's rights. After her husband's murder by Idi Amin's regime, she continued her advocacy, eventually becoming a deputy minister of the National Resistance Council, helping to re-establish democracy and create the 1996 constitution. Later, she focused on community work in Kiboga, advocating for education and health services and providing vocational training.
Jjajja Rhoda's journey underscores the importance of intentional leadership, mental strength, and gratitude. She inspires us to be humble leaders who never forget their origins and the support of those who walked with them.
©Blurb written by Divine Karungi
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership #FootprintsPodcast #WomenInLeadership #Inspiration #Resilience
Thu, 13 Jun 2024 - 24min - 10 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 7 | A Legend on Wheels!
This episode of the Footprints podcast features Arthur Blick, the fastest man on two wheels, sharing his life’s journey. He discusses the lessons learned, transitions faced, values held, his vision for the future, and the story behind his 660 trophies.
Arthur recalls being bullied by his larger brother, which fueled his competitive spirit. He took to exercise and sports like boxing and motorcycle racing. Winning his first race in 1965 at age fifteen, Arthur became a national champion for fourteen consecutive years and an East African champion for four years.
A spinal injury in 1982 ended his competitive sports career, but Arthur adapted, becoming a mechanic and modifying cars for people with disabilities. He later started Blick Wines, producing organic mulberry wine.
Arthur has served as Local Council One and District Councilor, advocating for accessibility standards. At seventy-six, he plans to set up a family sports complex and expand his wine business. Arthur's journey exemplifies resilience and tenacity, showing that transition is not the end.
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©Blurb written by Divine Karungi
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership #FootprintsPodcast #WomenInLeadership #Inspiration #Resilience
Thu, 06 Jun 2024 - 33min - 9 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 6 | Beyond the Present!
Living in the moment and savoring the present is important, but we must remember that nothing is guaranteed. In this episode of the Footprints Podcast, Ms. Judy Ann Kamanyi imparts wisdom from her decades of leadership across various platforms and reflects on the significance of preparedness in the face of change.
Ms. Judy's leadership journey began in her teenage years at Gayaza High School, where her potential was recognized by her teachers. She served as a junior-level prefect, received a leadership award, and was later appointed Deputy Head Girl during her senior five. As an expert in social development, gender equality, and governance, she advocated for the education of girls, campaigned against the discrimination of women in politics, and fought against unpunished sexual crimes towards women. Ms. Judy looks back on proud moments such as her contributions to women attaining positions in parliament. However, she also acknowledges her regrets for instances where she could have done more, particularly regarding the prevalent vagueness and ambivalence over topics like The Girl Child. She notes that despite the passage of time, people still seem to misunderstand the significance of these pressing issues. She questions whether she missed something critical that could have altered the outcome she sees today, believing that more focus on The Girl Child might have made a difference.
Despite this, she asserts that as leaders, it is impractical to always blame themselves for the outcomes of their work. While it is right to take responsibility, there are always many other factors at play. A leader must make peace with the fact that certain issues cannot be completely solved in one day.
Ms. Judy shared that she held various positions in the public and private sectors, as well as in non-governmental organizations (NGOs), and is currently employed as a consultant. Interestingly, she never prepared for any of these transitions, always focusing on the present and seamlessly moving into new roles. However, she now acknowledges that this approach may have been unwise, as change can bring about unpredictable outcomes. Though she had previously neglected the significance of life's transitions, she has since learned to appreciate the value of planning, especially given her dynamic work schedules.
"One should not take things for granted," she advised. She, like many others, had failed to address her previous transitions and had not devoted adequate time to prepare for them. Although most of her transitions had been relatively seamless, she recognized that sudden changes could be detrimental to many, leaving them in a state of shock. A sudden job loss, for example, could leave one vulnerable if they had not made contingency plans.
Ms. Judy's recognition of the human tendency to avoid difficult topics is significant. As she had experienced, it is a challenge to consider the implications of unexpected events such as job loss or inevitable death. Her emphasis on the value of intentionally asking ourselves difficult questions and planning for every stage of life transition is crucial. We must take the time to reflect regularly and incorporate succession and backup plans into our daily routine. By doing so, we can better equip ourselves to be Change Ready.
©Blurb written by Divine Karungi
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership #FootprintsPodcast #WomenInLeadership #Inspiration #Resilience
Fri, 31 May 2024 - 35min - 8 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 5 | Turning the Page
Most people think of retirement as the end, but it might just be the beginning. In this episode of Footprints, Robby Muhumuza shares his leadership journey, strategic decisions, and truths about misconceptions that cause struggles during and after retirement.
From an early love of stories in Bushenyi, Robby developed into a skilled leader. He served as Head of the Scripture Union and Editor in Chief at Makerere College. Robby worked at World Vision for 23 years, witnessing many transitions and learning to manage them effectively.
Robby prepared for retirement through planning classes, journaling, living below his means, and investing in savings schemes. When he unexpectedly retired at 50 due to restructuring, he was well-prepared. He engaged in consultancy, invested in real estate, and took financial literacy classes.
Robby’s retirement is comfortable, with steady income from investments. He advises planning for retirement early, budgeting, saving, and investing in health insurance. He also warns against relying on children as a backup plan and investing in large houses that can become financial burdens.
Robby’s journey demonstrates that intentional planning and reflection are key to thriving in retirement.
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership #FootprintsPodcast #WomenInLeadership #Inspiration #Resilience
Thu, 23 May 2024 - 48min - 7 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 4 - Part 2 | Relentless Resolve
In this compelling episode of the Footprints podcast, we sit down with Honorable Doctor Miria Koburunga Matembeas she shares her extraordinary life journey, motivations, and insights into finding peace amidst life's inevitable transitions. With remarkable candor and charisma, Doctor Matembe underscores the power of her voice in fighting discrimination and violence against women, challenging societal norms that undervalue women unless they bear male children or bring dowry to their families.
Born as the fourth child in a family of nine in rural Bwizibwera Kashari, Doctor Matembe's path was far from easy. Despite the obstacles, including the prioritization of her brothers' education over hers, she pursued her dream of becoming a lawyer dedicated to advocating for women and girls. Her tenacity led her from village school to Namasagali College, and eventually, a distinguished career in law and politics.
Doctor Matembe's achievements are numerous. As the Minister for Ethics and Integrity from 1998 to 2003, she played a crucial role in ensuring the Ugandan constitution addressed women's rights, including education and equal political opportunities. Her efforts in parliament led to the adoption of gender-neutral language and the acceptance of pantsuits as formal attire for women.
Internationally recognized, she received a standing ovation at the 1995 Women’s Conference in Beijing for her advocacy.
However, her journey was not without challenges. Her unwavering integrity and opposition to the removal of term limits led to her abrupt and unfair dismissal from politics after two decades of service. Despite the hardships, Doctor Matembe found new purpose and continued her advocacy through Action for Development (ACFODE)and other women's organizations.
Honorable Doctor Matembe's story is a testament to faith, resilience, and the enduring power of one's voice in the face of adversity.
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Join us for Episode 4, Part 2, as she offers invaluable wisdom on leadership, personal growth, and the relentless pursuit of justice for women everywhere.
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership #FootprintsPodcast #WomenInLeadership #Inspiration #Resilience
Fri, 17 May 2024 - 39min - 5 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 4 - Part 1 | Relentless Resolve
In this latest episode of the Footprints podcast, we delve into the remarkable life of Hon. Dr. Miria Koburunga Matembe! From her modest rural beginnings as one of nine children to breaking societal norms and rising as a fierce advocate for women's rights, Dr. Matembe candidly shares her story with charisma and insight. She reveals her motivations, triumphs, and how she found peace after an abrupt political exit, staying resilient through faith and determination.
Learn how she challenged biases that valued women only if they bore sons or brought dowry, and how she ensured the constitution safeguarded women's rights as the Minister of Ethics and Integrity. Her unwavering fight for equality shaped policies, empowered women to step up, and brought international recognition.
🎧 Tune in for timeless wisdom on navigating life's challenges, standing firm on values, and using your voice for change.
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprintspodcastseries #legacies #transitions #successionplaning #Leadership #FootprintsPodcast #WomenInLeadership #Inspiration #Resilience
Fri, 10 May 2024 - 44min - 3 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 3 | Mastering the Tides of Change
The lack of purposefulness in many people is probably the biggest reason why our society is in a state of stagnation. This episode of the Footprints Podcast features Ian Clarke, an Irish Ugandan doctor and missionary. He shares his experiences from his 72 years of life, alongside the visions that propelled him to strive for his goals, bringing forth transformation as a leader.
As a doctor, he came to know of the AIDS pandemic scourging the population in Uganda. He arrived alongside the Church Missionary Society in 1987 and was devastated; seeing the cruel nature of the disease firsthand in a community, Luweero, that was in a state of acclimatization, bearing the aftermath of the recent bush war. As an individual highly motivated by having an impact on society, he ran a charitable hospital, treating the ailing as best as he could. Unfortunately, so many still died of the disease, including some of his colleagues which he found extremely emotionally traumatic.
Leaving the country for London, Ian Clarke pursued a Master's degree in Public Health. He started a clinic at the Kampala Pentecostal Church building in Kampala upon his return. He developed the clinic into a hospital; International Hospital Kampala, and also set up Clarke University with a nursing school, following his belief in the need to bring forth substantial change through quality healthcare and education.
In 2011, Ian Clarke served as the Mayor of Makindye Division. Determined to repair the dilapidated roads, he was extremely hands-on, as he engaged with the technical workers like the truck drivers, even offering his own, to ensure all the potholes were filed by the time his term in office had elapsed. He says that leaders must “Get on with it” and do the work to make change.
Ian Clarke states that he will not retire any time soon, but rather focuses on the fact that life is made of seasons, for which one must be purposeful and intentional with each transition. Reflecting on his decision to come to Uganda with the resolve to save lives as a doctor at the height of the AIDS pandemic, build good roads for his community, and settle in Uganda, he is proud of the impact he has made.
It can be said, looking back on his journey, that leaders can only find fulfillment if they first find what drives them; pursuing it relentlessly, with intentionality, and openness to learning.
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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Fri, 03 May 2024 - 34min - 2 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 2 | Unyielding Faith
In the latest episode of the Footprints Podcast, Mrs. Joyie Mugarura, affectionately known as Auntie Joy, shares her inspiring life story. Raised in a devout Christian environment, she faced significant challenges transitioning back to Uganda from Canada, where she navigated financial hardships with resilience and integrity.
Choosing to resign to better focus on her family, she started a home-based bakery. Demonstrating shrewd financial acumen, she managed her family's finances through tough times, ultimately purchasing land and overseeing the construction of their home.
Auntie Joy's journey is a powerful testament to living a life of faith, integrity, and leadership, profoundly impacting her community and family.
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For more information on CivSource Africa's Change Ready initiative CLICK HERE
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Fri, 26 Apr 2024 - 51min - 1 - Footprints Podcast | Season 1 | Episode 1 | Uncle Ben's Gospel: Faith, Music, and Facing the Unforeseen
Join us on the inaugural episode of the Footprints podcast as Reverend Canon Benoni Mugarura Mutana, fondly known as Uncle Ben, shares his remarkable journey as an ordained priest in the Anglican Church. Discover Uncle Ben's early realization of his leadership potential and his unwavering commitment to revolutionizing music within the church to reach the youth. Despite facing resistance, his perseverance and innovative approach left a lasting impact on the community.
As Uncle Ben retired after 50 years of service, he reflects on the challenges of transition, including financial uncertainties. Yet, his foresight and careful planning with his wife ensured a smoother transition, emphasizing the importance of preparation for life's inevitable changes. While Uncle Ben's journey highlights the realities of the employment sector, it also underscores the necessity of faith, perseverance, and responsibility.
Ultimately, Uncle Ben's story teaches us the significance of finding our gifts, creating change, and cultivating leaders, while emphasizing the importance of teamwork and leaving a lasting legacy.
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For more information onCivSource Africa's Change ready initiative CLICK HERE
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#footprints #legacies #transitions #successionplaning
#transitions
Fri, 05 Apr 2024 - 45min
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