Grey Areas with Petra Bagust

Today I’m joined by three extraordinary and radically different women who consider each other family. Each in a different decade of life – their 50s, 60s, and 70s – Jackie Clarke, Tina Cross, and Suzanne Lynch have performed together for the past two decades as The Lady Killers, and they’re still going strong.

Fresh off their DIVAS! tour to sold out venues around New Zealand, we sit down to discuss music, ageing, and friendship. The stories these wāhine toa share are filled with hard-won wisdom and riotous laughter that beckons us to grab hold of every stage of life with curiosity, compassion and camaraderie whether we vote the same way or not. 

Tune in as we tackle menopause, breaking down stereotypes, the perpetual pressure to present perfectly (trying saying that fast), and the vital importance of supporting one another through it all!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

In this episode, I sit down with psychologist, author, and menopause researcher Dr Hillary McBride to explore what it means to truly come home to our bodies - to treat them like a best friend. Hillary’s work spans critical topics like trauma, eating disorders, and women's health, with a particular focus on menopause as a transformative experience.

Through her books, The Wisdom of Your Body and Practices for Embodied Living, Hillary advocates for a reconnection with our bodies, inviting us to listen to, honour, and celebrate our physical selves.

Using Hillary’s vivid metaphor of our body as a home, we discuss the absurdity of ‘living on the front lawn’ and basing our worth on this external perspective. She encourages us to find our way back inside the home and make the most of the rich experiences to be found within.

Hillary champions supportive environments where women can share their experiences free from judgement - her research demonstrates the positive and practical impact of women talking about menopause with each other… this information is too good not to share - come and sit with this wise soul who loves helping women find safety and solace in our very own bodies!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Buckle in for an uplifting conversation filled with laughter and wisdom! Petra Bagust is the host of popular rova podcasts Grey Areas and Sunday Sanctuary, a radio personality and TV presenter, a media chaplain, mum to three young people and all-round wonderful wāhine. 

In this episode, Petra shares candidly how she has approached the highs and lows of motherhood with grace for herself, and the many things she’s learned along the way. With energy, wit and wisdom, she delves into the richness that can be found in relationships, the magic of her personal te reo journey, and the freedom that comes with tuning into what we place our value in, particularly as we age. 

A small disclaimer, this episode contains a sprinkle of mild swearing—nothing that would make your grandma faint, but maybe cover the kids’ ears if they’re around. 

Parents We’ve Met is brought to you by Parenting Place – a charity with a heart for New Zealand families. Explore our self-guided online courses and hundreds of free parenting articles and ideas HERE. 

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The tide is rising toward Megan’s 50th birthday, and we surf the currents of childhood memories to uncover how mermaids, like the best stories, delight us with their symbolic depth.

We reflect on my relationship with my mother, navigating the murky waters between closeness and independence. Megan shares how her mother transformed into an exuberant grandmother, becoming a lighthouse guiding her toward metamorphosis despite her own unfulfilled dreams.

We wade into the depths of parenting and self-love, exploring the complexities of aging amid impossible societal expectations. This episode rides the wave of generational bonds that, while often frustrating, anchor us.

As our conversation ebbs and flows through themes of self-acceptance and re-enchantment, we question conventional metrics of success and the power of ‘voice’ in shaping our narratives. Splashing through literature and art, we celebrate the significance of community and meaningful connections, steering us toward a more magical sense of purpose.

Join us as we surf these enchanting waves together!

Song Credit: Korimako, performed by Aro, written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker, published by Songbroker.

There were three things Susie Ferguson was never going to do; climb Mt Everest, run a marathon or write a book.

However a serendipitous podcast interview with my good friend Frank nudged her to capture her experiences as a war correspondent, radio journalist and woman - the result is "Bloody Minded." 

Susie shares her experiences of being bullied and even publicly shamed by a teacher while navigating the tricky dynamics of an all-girls school. 

Her candid reflections on enduring undiagnosed endometriosis while reporting from Iraq, display her resilience and humour. 

From her love story with husband Lee, to the intense bonds formed in war zones,and the challenges of transitioning into motherhood, Susie’s book is moving and memorable.

Join us for a heartfelt exploration of adaptability, determination, and the bonds that define our lives.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

I sit down with the delightful Nici Wickes, a beloved cookbook author with a talent for making culinary adventures accessible and joyful, as she shares her wisdom on no-fuss cooking, building confidence in and out of the kitchen, and her latest book ‘More from A Quiet Kitchen.’

We tackle body image and health, confronting societal expectations, and shifting our focus from our appearance to our wellbeing along the journey to ageing with self-acceptance.

Nici also gets real about prioritising mental health as we explore themes of solitude, self-expression, and the serenity found in cooking for oneself. 

Whether it's in the kitchen, navigating boundaries, or finding peace in the chaos, this conversation is a heartfelt invitation to celebrate ourselves and savour some of life’s simplest pleasures.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Join us for the first episode of Grey Areas Season 6 as we sit down with award-winning journalist, doco-maker and loveable rogue Patrick Gower to discuss his unfiltered memoir, This Is the F#$%ing News.

In this candid conversation, Paddy gets vulnerable about the toxic cocktail of alcoholism, bullying and work addiction that brought about a mental breakdown – and would ultimately lead him to embrace authenticity and give up the booze for good.

Having overcome inner turmoil and his self-described “massive ego”, Paddy shares how he has turned his darkest moments into a source of purpose. His story is a testament to the power of confronting personal demons and emerging stronger on the other side.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Kia ora! I'm Petra, and welcome to Grey Areas, back for its sixth season. We're diving deep into the conversations that matter—those tricky, often unspoken topics that can powerfully shape our lives.

Throughout this season, I sit down with incredible New Zealanders who aren't afraid to tackle the tough stuff. We explore subjects like endometriosis, our complex relationships with our bodies, singleness, loneliness, and the inner dialogue we all have—sometimes critical, sometimes empowering.

I'm excited to bring you conversations with amazing guests, including journalist Paddy Gower, broadcaster Susie Ferguson, and beloved cook and author Nici Wickes. 

Plus we'll look ahead to life's next chapters—beyond the hormones and emotional turbulence—asking ourselves, "What does it mean to be retirement-ready?" and "What do we want from the next season of our lives?" Because we all know it's about more than just money, (even though that helps!)

This season, we're also welcoming our first international guest, Dr. Hillary McBride, who will share her wisdom on how we can reconnect with our bodies in meaningful ways.

Creating Grey Areas is some of the most fulfilling work of my life, and I'm so grateful to have you on this journey with me. Together, we have the opportunity to engage in conversations that just might spark revolutionary thinking. So come, join me around this virtual campfire as we launch Season 6.

New episodes drop weekly starting October 3rd on rova or wherever you get your favourite podcasts.

Getting up at stupid-o’clock every weekday morning to perform in front of the nation requires a certain type of strength and stamina. Add perimenopause to the pressure cooker of live television and you’ve got yourself a potent cocktail of challenges.

Part of Jenny-May Clarkson’s secret is the dynamic partnership she’s forged with her husband Dean. In this episode they share the story of their second-chance-at-love romance, and how their differences complement each other in raising twins, working hard, and navigating major life transitions.

Jenny-May also shares about receiving her moko kauae (traditional Māori tattoo), and how understanding and embracing her heritage has invited her inner critic to take a back seat.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Having children and becoming a mother is a huge part of our collective cultural script. When you’re single, the question is ‘when are you going to find someone?’ When you find someone, the question becomes ‘when are you having children?’

So what about the many women who don’t have children, either by choice, circumstance or because they’re unable to?

Otherhood is a newly published book of essays on being childless, childfree and child-adjacent.

Lil O’Brien and Kathryn van Beek are two of the editors of this anthology, which charts the challenges, joys and griefs that being without children brings, and has also inadvertently created space and a lovely community for people who aren’t mothers. Ka pai!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

In a culture of unhealthy comparison and burdensome perfectionism, how do we cultivate an openness to getting it wrong? … Like, really get down and dirty with failure and understand how necessary it is for growth and basically learning anything at all.

Dr Jin Russell’s intimidating bio reads like the ultimate perfectionist’s achievement list. She’s a Consultant Developmental Paediatrician at Starship Children’s Health and a researcher in public health, investigating the impact of poverty on children. She’s won clinical awards, competitive research grants, has multiple degrees including a PhD, and sits on several boards. She’s spoken publicly on behalf of vulnerable children. Oh, and she’s a mum – no biggie.

Yet in spite of her achievements and accolades, she’s keenly interested in what failure can produce in us, and how to pursue excellence without being weighed down by the impossible pursuit of perfection.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

The world of investing has long been dominated by men, but did you know that the women who do invest typically do better than their male counterparts?

Honestly, it’s never been easier with the technology now available to us, so let’s figure out what positive action we can take because the good news is it’s never too late to get amongst it.

Victoria Harris is passionate about women taking control of their financial futures. Along with her podcast co-host, Sophie Hallwright, she founded Raising The Curve to help wāhine do just that.

Later in the episode Kirstien Taylor from Generate Kiwisaver talks about the simple things that we can do now to better prepare ourselves for retirement.

Check out Victoria and Sophie's podcast The Curve.

Disclaimer: No part of this podcast is intended as financial advice; it is intended as general information only. For more information about the Generate KiwiSaver Scheme see their Product Disclosure Statement at generatekiwisaver.co.nz/pds. The issuer of the scheme is Generate Investment Management Limited. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

There are moments in time where issues that have lurked in the shadows reach a tipping point and break into the public consciousness. Now is such a time for neurodiversity and ADHD. We are ready for healthier, more embracing conversations about how different brains work.

TV presenter and actor Sonia Gray is on a quest to make life better for neurodiverse children and their families since her own tempestuous journey with daughter Inez. Her experiences and research has also led to discovering some of the mysteries of her own brain and how she’s uniquely wired! This is personal.

Sonia opens a window into the difficulty of raising neurodiverse children in a world that often doesn’t value difference, and explores the pain of being misunderstood. Sonia shares her public journey as an advocate, as well as her private journey towards loving self-acceptance.

For more podcasts on the topic check out Sonia's own podcast series No Such Thing As Normal, as well as the ADHD episode of Are You Mental? by Mick Andrews.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Open a refreshing window to the world of creativity with Dr. Selina Tusitala Marsh as we riff on creativity and poetry. Turns out you don’t have to give it up after high school.

Selina, an accomplished poet, academic, and illustrator, shares profound insights and captivating tales from her journey, which includes becoming NZ’s official poet (aka Poet Laureate), an unconventional marriage break up, and being honoured as an Officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit.

From the physicality of marathons to the tranquillity of walking, we discuss the evolution of our creative lives and the surprises ageing invites us into. 

With her trademark wisdom and wit, Selina shares the transformational role of poetry in empowering Pasifika leaders and reflects on the expansive nature of creativity, such as making a cup of tea with love… does it taste any different?

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Hot on the heels of launching her new book Evolving, Judy Bailey sat down with Petra to talk all things ageing.

At 72 years old, Judy has a sparkle that's infectious. Her credentialed career as a journalist, along with her natural curiosity and sense of fun make her an ideal guide to navigate the landscape of ageing, and explore the latest research on how to do it well.

It’s exciting to hear that since leaving television, Judy is having some of the most fulfilling years of her life! Naturally, they haven’t been without trials, including navigating her husband Chris’s cancer diagnosis.

Be encouraged by Judy’s insights and enthusiasm and take meaningful action for your future now, knowing you can do it with a twinkle in your eye, throughout your golden years.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

We're kicking off Season 5 with our LIVE recording of a fun and fascinating panel discussion tackling pleasure, intimacy, and love in midlife and menopause with writer Niki Bezzant and relationship coach Meg Cowan.

Niki Bezzant is a trained journalist whose book This Changes Everything: the honest guide to menopause and perimenopause has, for thousands of New Zealanders, shed light on the oddly overlooked experience of women and ageing. Diving into sexuality, intimacy and desire in her upcoming book The Everything Guide Niki tackles a raft of ‘sex myths for grown-ups’ and shows us we’re not alone in navigating the highs and lows of our sexual journeys.

Meg Cowan is a sex & relationship coach who’s created The Couples Guide to Hotter Sex in 10 Days! and The Shame-free Sex Course, delivering empowering practical skills to people all around the world. Meg is pro-pleasure, practical and positive - and believes we can all find our way to magnificent sexual expression whatever our season.

The night also featured a special musical appearance from Aro - the creators of the Grey Areas waiata/theme song Korimako. Catch Aro's brand new album out 19th April!

Kia ora! Petra here and we’re getting ready for Season 5!

5 feels like a milestone… off to school and all that, growing up literally - thanks for coming on this journey with me - hasn’t it been fun and also fascinating!?! 

We have built up quite the collection of stories and questions to travel with us into our next season - hopefully with more compassion, humour and  courageous can-do. Let’s keep going! 

Who would have thought we’d talk about vulval skin health, pelvic floors, boobs bones and all the things menopause! There is plenty left to yarn about, so many great stories to share and I hope that in sharing stories of our wonderful guests and their ‘grey areas’ - you feel more at home in your own skin, head and heart.

This season I’m joined by more fabulous guests including authors Judy Bailey, Niki Bezzant and Selina Tusitala Marsh, presenter Sonia Gray and sex coach Meg Cowan.

We go fossicking about in experiences of perfectionism and adult diagnosis of ADHD, take personal journeys into creativity, relationship changes like separation and even ageing on purpose, as well as a particular highlight of mine - talking about pleasure, intimacy and love in mid-life with two awesome wāhine - live on stage - that’s right we did a live event and I LOVED IT!

So join me for Season 5 of Grey Areas with Petra Bagust!

New episodes drop weekly from April 18th on rova, or wherever you get your favourite podcasts.

Film reviewer extraordinaire Kate Rodger joins Grey Areas for another laugh-filled chat about stepping outside of her ‘lane’, dealing with feelings of overwhelm, and the progress she's making on her personal goals.

Kate brings her trademark humour and wildly generous way with words to a conversation about new challenges, making time for what’s important, and never being afraid to have a good ol’ cry in the staff loos.

If you want to hear more from Kate check out her earlier episode The edges of menopause from Season 2!

Iconic broadcaster Robert Rakete returns to Grey Areas, joining Petra for a candid and uplifting kōrero.

Robert has been discovering more of his whakapapa as he continues to learn Te Reo Māori, and shares his love of embracing the beginner's mind, facing fears and embracing failure.

Plus Robert catches Petra up on his recent prostate check-up! 👀

If you want to hear more scintillating stories from Robert check out his episode Recovering identity from Season 1!

Two years on from her first Grey Areas appearance, Petra catches up with journalist and TVNZ's Sunday host Miriama Kamo as she's rounded out her fifth decade.

Turning 50 can invite introspection and casting new vision for your life. Miriama grabs this opportunity with both hands sharing the raft of intentions she has for this season from getting braces to studying te reo Māori.

In the midst of goal-setting, Petra and Miriama reflect on how to sidestep shame and resource ourselves, even when life's not going exactly according plan.

If you want to hear more of Miriama's heart and wisdom check out her and Robyn Malcolm's episode Menopause stories from Season 1!

Annie Crummer and Betty-Anne Monga along with Julia Deans and Boh Runga will be forming a powerhouse ensemble at this year's Auckland Arts Festival performance, Hear Me Roar! on March 8.

Annie and Betty-Anne joined me for a korero all about creativity, collaboration and purpose.

We riff on the power of music to accompany us through every season - the summers and winters of life. Music offers us a kind of hope when life gets bogged down in the grey areas and we explore how as women we can move into our own confidence and taking up space.

Get your tickets to Hear Me Roar! at aaf.co.nz/event/hear-me-roar and check out the rest of the incredible events at aaf.co.nz.

This bonus episode was brought to you by Auckland Arts Festival.

Add to your kete of understanding our bone health with this kōrero with Christine Gill, Executive Director of Osteoporosis New Zealand. 

The life cycle of these living tissues from birth to menopause and beyond is fascinating. Christine talks us through the process of bone turnover, the often misunderstood osteoporosis, the importance of achieving maximum bone strength by age 30, and the myriad factors that can influence our bone health throughout life. The good news is that it's never too early or late to care for our bones!

Resources -

This bonus episode was brought to you by ACC.

The magic of female friendships is pretty undeniable - as is the role they play in shaping us. Join us for an inspiring kōrero with long-time BFFs, broadcaster Stacey Morrison and fashion designer Kiri Nathan, who have been the epitome of friendship for over 25 years.

From their first meeting at the Smoke-Free Fashion Awards to navigating marriages, children, and their respective careers, their journey is a testament to the power of enduring, intentional friendship.

Stacey and Kiri also share their thoughts on the importance of boundaries with friends, and being mindful of our energy and capacity. We also discuss the challenges of being vulnerable and learning to let go of the pursuit of perfection.

P.S. Stacey was a guest in Season 2 of Grey Areas - check out her kōrero too!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

What does it take to become a legendary netball player? What's the journey like, and how does finding a new identity in a foreign land shape your life and an illustrious sporting career spanning over 20 years? Join me this episode for a kōrero with iconic netballer and Silver Fern, Irene Van Dyk.

We hear about her experience as an immigrant athlete in New Zealand, her experience with the media, and the decisions she made around motherhood. Irene opens up about the conversation she had with Dame Noeline Taurua in the lead up to her retirement. She also has a message for all the parents of kids playing netball - tune in to hear it.

Of course, we check in on how perimenopause is treating Irene and we get to hear Irene's famed laugh almost the entire conversation because oh, how we laughed! 

P.S. Can't get enough? Dame Noeline Taurua was a guest on Season 03 of Grey Areas - have a listen to her episode too!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Here's something a little special - a crossover episode with Charlotte Cook of RNZ's Hair and Loathing!

Join us as we embark on a head to toe exploration of our relationships with hair - both on our heads and our bodies. Charlotte and I take a visit to Stephen Marr's salon for a kōrero over haircuts, we chat at my whare, and we also catch up with a few of you out on the streets of Tāmaki Makaurau Auckland.

This kōrero we deep dive into hair's cultural implications, societal double standards, and the emotional connection we have with it. We investigate different hair removal processes, reflect on our relationships with our hair, and the pressure to conform to certain beauty standards.

Whether you have a full head of curls or a baby-smooth chin, this episode is a love letter to hair in all its glorious forms.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Ready for a hearty conversation with a trailblazer in women's sports journalism? We welcome Suzanne McFadden, an acclaimed sports journalist who's been championing women's sports in a male-dominated field.

Suzanne's grit and determination have not only helped her break barriers but also led her to establish Locker Room, a platform dedicated to showcasing women's sports. She's also a Silver Sister and you know how much we love them!

We dive into the heart of Suzanne's career, discussing the evolution of women's sports coverage and the challenges she faced being the only woman in a sports newsroom, shedding light on the highs and lows of her journey. 

We also hear about the support she received from her family and friends during her decade as a solo mum, her delightful love story, and discovering her Māori whakapapa. Suzanne's journey is one of resilience and I cannot wait for you to hear this one!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Ever wondered if you need to see your GP because you're experiencing discomfort or itching on your vulva? You're not alone. It turns out that vulval skin conditions are incredibly common and women in Aotearoa New Zealand suffer for an average of 10 years before working up the courage to see a doctor. We've got to change that! After all, skin is skin. So let's yarn about vulval skin health.

The knowledgeable Dr Harriet Kennedy (MBCHB, FRACP, FNZDS) joins us for an informative, empowering and compassionate conversation about female genital dermatology. She sheds light on common vulval skin conditions such as lichen sclerosis, the impact of menopause on vulva skin, what to expect at your appointment with your doctor, as well as treatments.

We also hear from you, our Grey Areas community, and some of your personal journeys with vulva skin health. Thank you for sharing your stories with us. 

Here are a few websites Dr Harriet Kennedy recommends as resources - 

issvd.org/resources
anzvs.org/patient-information/
dermnetnz.org

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Family grief, the devastation of divorce, cross-generational friendships, learning Te Reo Māori and more - we talk about it all with Stuff journalist, Paula Penfold. We also discuss the challenges of the media world, the aftermath of job redundancy, and the importance of self-care in such a fast-paced profession.

Paula opens up about her experience with perimenopause (and that one conversation we had about it in front of a mutual male friend), and how it ramped up her anxiety, the illusions of television glamour, and navigating self-image with age. Just some of the big stuff of life!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

It's Mental Health Awareness Week here in Aotearoa New Zealand so we chat with mental health speaker and educator and Tui-award winning artist, the talented Julia Grace.

In this conversation, Julia openly shares her struggles with heartbreak and its accompanying disorientation, depression, and anxiety. We chat about recognising our coping mechanisms and the importance of compassion when looking back at our lives. We also delve into dating in her 40s and of course, her perimenopause journey and fabulous silver hair!

Along the way, Julia shares tips for supporting our mental health from her soon-to-be released book Be Kind to Your Mind. 

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

It's Mental Health Awareness Week here in Aotearoa, New Zealand and so I'd like to take the opportunity to introduce you to a podcast called A Moment With.

A Moment With is hosted by my friend Gen Mora, Co-Founder and General Manager of Voices of Hope, a not-for-profit organisation aimed to break the stigma around mental illness.

In this podcast, Gen sits down with incredible individuals who have faced mental health challenges, delving into their personal lived experiences. They also explore the valuable tools and lessons they have gained on their journey.

Have a listen to A Moment With on rova or wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode, we have a kōrero with squash champion and former Race Relations Commissioner, Dame Susan Devoy (also of Celebrity Treasure Island fame!).

We discuss her fight against stereotypes, the complexities of gender dynamics, and also touch on the influence of sports as a universal language and a powerful tool for fostering greater cultural understanding. Susan is a tenacious leader!

But the conversation isn't just about Susan's public life. We also explore her journey through menopause and the emotional toll it can take. We also hear about her current life phase - between jobs and looking for the next thing that will bring her joy.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Welcome to our brand new season of Grey Areas! Can you believe we're already at Season 4?! And who better to kick it off with than the multi-talented, one and only Anika Moa. She's a māmā, a singer/songwriter, television presenter, radio host, all-round resilient wahine toa.

Join us as we delve into Anika's world as she openly discusses her struggles with type 1 diabetes, depression, and the impact of ADHD on her relationships. From the highs and lows of managing her health conditions to her decision to step back from her breakfast radio show due to burnout, Anika's story is a testament of her resilience and unwavering belief in herself. 

We share SO many laughs along the way.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Kia ora. Petra Bagust here, and I have been thinking a bit about what makes up the ‘grey areas’ of our lives, because I think that’s a huge part of why this podcast works.

To me, a ‘grey area’ is a tricky space. A delicate space. A space that can bring, maybe discomfort or discouragement, or cause isolation.

Maybe a 'grey area' is something that has been talked about using ‘you should’ or ‘you ought’ - you know, obligation language.

Or it’s an area that has simply not been talked about at all.

And the thing is, so much of our life takes place in those ‘grey areas’... Stuff isn’t clearcut and straightforward.

Life is messy and fragmented and there’s something kind of magical that happens when those long-held unhelpful norms and narratives are re-examined in the light of a spacious, gracious vulnerability.

When we get to hear our stories - when we have the courage to say ‘this is me’... it may not be polished and presentable and perfect, but it’s what I’ve got.

And it's enough.

So… with all that said, I am very happy to announce that we’re about to kick off Season 4, and as always I’m joined by some wonderful human beings.

This season includes Anika Moa, Dame Susan Devoy, Charlotte Cook, Kiri Nathan, Stacey Morrison, Irene van Dyk. We even chat with a specialist about skin irritations that can happen 'down there' - you know where; our vulvas. Let's talk about it.

We're gonna dig deep into menopause, diabetes, heartbreak, friendship, cultural changes, body hair, and stacks of other societal ‘Grey Areas’.

So join me for the joy ride that is Season 4 of Grey Areas!

New episodes drop weekly from September 7th on rova, or wherever you get your favourite podcasts.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Kia ora! I hope you are going well. Don't panic - Season 04 of Grey Areas is on the way (I promise!) 

While we are between seasons, I want to share another episode from my other podcast, Sunday Sanctuary. 

This one is called The Miracle of the Mundane and it's all about finding joy and wonder within the everyday-ness of life.

If this is something you'd like to hear more of, join the Sunday Sanctuary community on Instagram at @sundaysanctuarynz, and catch a new episode every second Sunday at 7am, wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for Sunday Sanctuary with Petra Bagust.

Keep an eye on this feed for Grey Areas Season 4! I'm so excited to share what we have brewing.

Join me for the final episode of Grey AreasSeason 03, where I am joined by renowned actress Jennifer Ward-Lealand, as we traverse her four-decade long journey in the world of theatre, film, and TV. Jennifer shares with us how a series of epiphanies and following her heart set her firmly on her path to becoming an actor.

Listen in as Jennifer takes us on her personal journey of learning and committing to using Te Reo Māori, a task she undertook after being caught off guard by a mihi on a film set.

Jennifer also shares fascinating insights into her evolution as an intimacy coordinator and we discuss the importance of continued learning and embracing community.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

I sat down with the incredible Lotta Dann to unpick the tangled web of our relationship with alcohol. From the tricky task of moderation to the deeper complexities of addiction, Lotta and I unshroud the often unspoken battle with the bottle.

As we both navigate the challenging season of perimenopause, we reflect on the importance of mindfulness and finding the ‘sweet spot’ when it comes to contentment.

We explore the power of mindful drinking and setting intentions - it’s not about total abstinence, but about being aware and making conscious choices and taking steps towards a more mindful way of living.

Check out Living Sober atlivingsober.org.nz

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Broadcaster, entertainer and my brother-from-another-mother Pio Terei joins me for a conversation about the privilege it is to age - because not everyone gets to.

We talk about where he's at with his journey of grief following the loss of his son Teina in 2016, the role curiosity plays in ageing well, as well as swap stories on our intergenerational living set-ups. As serious as we tried to be, plenty of laughs were had - because how could you not when you're chatting with Pio Terei?

If you're interested in more delicious kōrero I've had with Pio, check out the episode When Has Food Felt Like Love?on my other podcast Sunday Sanctuary - wherever you get your favourite podcasts.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Netball legend Dame Noeline Taurua is an absolute wahine toa. Dame Noeline's been a member of the Silver Ferns since the 90s - first as a player, then again as assistant coach and now as head coach since 2018.

She is widely recognised as one of the greatest coaches of the sport.

Dame Noeline joins Petra for a look back at the triumphs and tricky parts of her life and career that have brought her to this point, and what it takes to make your mark on the world.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Brazilian-born actor and playwright Tatiana Hotere joins Petra Bagust for a poignant conversation about navigating the sudden loss of her husband Jason six years ago. 

Tatiana shares how debilitating her grief could be at times, a profound way she discovered to navigate those waves of grief, and the complications of grieving in community.

Tatiana's play Skin Hunger was written as a way to process her grief and was performed at Auckland’s Q Theatre this year. She also blogs about grief on her website Crazy Grief.

For more conversation about grief, check out Season 1 of Grey Areas, where Petra speaks with Wendyl Nissen and Te Waka McLeod about the inevitable grief of losing our parents.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Broadcaster, radio host and Sky Sport presenter Laura McGoldrick joins me for a conversation about loving the bodies we have. 

When she was a young girl, Laura tragically lost her cousin to a rare form of skin cancer, and years later her father-in-law, Peter Guptill, also passed away from melanoma. In this episode Laura and I talk about caring for our miraculous and marvellous skin, but then we go deeper.

Laura and I explore our respective attitudes towards our bodies, and how having daughters has challenged each of us. What does it look like to care for our whole selves, and side-step the tired scripts we're so often invited to live out? What could it look like to truly feel comfortable in our own skin?

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Michele Wilson (Tainui, Ngāti Paoa) is the founder and CEO of AWWA Period Care, a female-founded indigenous-owned business providing washable, reusable period underwear.

While the business was born out of traditional Māori wisdom and practices surrounding ikura (periods), Michele did not grow up having an understanding of these. In this kōrero Michele talks about her journey to embrace and reclaim her Māori identity, and how this haerenga has given her a fresh perspective on her body and the actions she can take to awhi (support) herself, as well as a passion to advocate for wider-spread awareness on women's menstrual cycles.

We also hear what she's teaching her own daughters about their periods, and of course, we chat perimenopause and menopause.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Kicking off Season 3, I'm delighted to welcome this absolute legend of New Zealand comedy, Michèle A'Court ONZM. (How fun that we can now put those big important letters after her name?!)

Whilst I'm only at the start of my 50s, Michèle's just put them in her rear view mirror. I wanted to glean some wisdom for this upcoming decade, and have a tonne of laughs while we're at it, so who better to chat to?

We talk about encountering ageism, placing healthy boundaries, and the delight of creating meaningful space for others.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Kia ora e hoa mā! After six whole months, I am so excited to finally be back with you with another season of Grey Areas. 

Season 3 drops in a week on Thursday, 25 May and I hope you'll join me again for more kōrero with wonderful humans about those trickier parts of getting older.

This season we chat with the delightful Michele A'Court about winning in your 50s, my mate Pio Terei about the privilege of ageing, and even go on an exploration of our relationship with alcohol with Lotta Dann. There's so much more goodness coming your way.

We've also got new ways for us to connect as a Grey Areas community - send me your feedback and thoughts at 0800 GREY AREAS and become part of our brand-new Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/greyareaswithpetrabagust.

Exciting times! Catch you on rova, or wherever you get your podcasts next week.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Kia ora! I have missed you. Exciting times - Season 03 of Grey Areas is dropping next week! 

It's been a whole six months since Season 02 and while we've been working away at this next season, I've also been up to a little something else called Sunday Sanctuary. 

It started as a live radio show on Sunday mornings on Today FM and ran for six whole weeks before the demise of the station meant it was all over. But we refused to give up on the show and it's now a podcast! 

Inspired by the idea of creating a sanctuary, Sunday Sanctuaryis a safe and peaceful place where people can reflect on spirituality and retreat from the chaos and noise of the outside world.

It's different from Grey Areas but we thought you might like to have a listen!

Join the Sunday Sanctuary community on Instagram at @sundaysanctuarynz, and catch a new episode every second Sunday at 7am, wherever you get your podcasts.

Catch you next week for Season 03 of Grey Areas!

Just wanted to pop in to say hi... and thanks for all the beautiful feedback on Season 2 of Grey Areas!

I joined my mate Asher on his new show Pod-Heads and thought I'd share a snippet of that kōrero with you.

You can listen to the full episode on the Pod-Heads feed over at https://linktr.ee/podheads

In this episode we look a little more intently at the ill-defined edges of perimenopause - those bumpy borders on the way in and out - and how we can find support in those tricky transitions.

First up, I'm delighted to welcome back to the show Lara Briden, whose wealth of experience and knowledge combined with her encouraging tone is a cool and soothing balm to so many hot-flush-addled women (myself included).

Next, I sat down with fabulous film-reviewer Kate Rodger. Her perimenopausal journey has been playing out rather publicly on our screens, and her stories, openness and humour made for a killer way to wrap up Season 2!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

From mild irritation to annoyance to fury and rage - what is anger, really? Are women allowed to be angry in our society? What role does anger play in our lives? And is it ever a good thing?

Join me as a I discuss this with registered psychologist Nettie Cullen, gaining her professional insight into this tricky emotion, including how to understand what our anger is telling us and what we can do with it.

But first I chat with broadcaster and food blogger Jax Donaldson, of soigather.nz, about her experience of anger. We swap our stories of anger in our childhoods and how we've navigated those moments of being pushed to our limits as parents.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Meet two of my awesome mates, Pietra Brettkelly and Sandy Burgham, who are two fabulous wāhine living life to the beat of their own drums, and saying No to the script society says women need to follow. So I thought it'd be bloody good fun to sit down and swap stories, and find out what makes their brave risk-taking brains tick.

Pietra is a documentary film-maker whose body of work includes Yellow is Forbidden and The Art Star and the Sudanese Twins. She is a member of The Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences (yes, she was at this year's Oscars!), and was recently named an Arts Laureate of New Zealand. She also cycled for almost two hours to get to our interview!

At the age of 50, Sandy quit her high-powered corporate job and decided to go back to uni, design an app, write a blog and so much more. In 2016, founded Play CoLab - a collaborative practice deeply invested in innovative approaches to systemic, organisational and personal transformation. 

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

How weird are boobs? I mean, when you think about it, they can be sexually stimulating to others, life-giving to babies, and at times even deadly to us!

How we think about our lovely lady lumps is too often dictated by everybody else, but even our own attitudes can be laced with criticism and shame.

Too small. Too big. Too uneven. Too heavy. It's all too much! 

In this episode I sit down with the delightful Jay-Jay Feeney to have a good honest look at our mammaries, how we can give them a little more love, and she explains why she got that now-famous breast reduction.

I also chat with Dr Katherine Gale about early signs of breast cancer and her work as an oncoplastic breast surgeon. She even talks me through how we can do our own at-home breast examinations. Important stuff!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

We decided to do something a little different this episode! My wonderful counsellor Shirley Pastiroff joins for a live counselling session. What could possibly go wrong?!

Shirley is a counsellor at Renew Your Mind, parent coach, and author of 'The Mindful Parent'. She also runs the often sold-out workshop, Mindful Parenting. Based in Tāmaki Makaurau, she's also a mum of five well-functioning humans.

I wasn't entirely sure where our conversation would lead but I love where we ended up. We explored my ongoing challenge with saying No, delving into the science behind therapy, how our emotions aren't problems, and Shirley teaches me the art of the emotional processing technique, 'ALL' - all live! 

Since the recording, I have told many friends about ALL because it's been game-changing. Join us!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Did you know that about 50 percent of women will experience a prolapse? We're talking a prolapse of their anterior vaginal wall, or their uterus or bowel starting to come down. And did you know that 34 percent of women experience leakage? But the encouraging news is 70-80 percent of women see significant improvements thanks to pelvic floor physiotherapy!

It's pretty mind-blowing that we aren't having more conversations about this part of our body, given how common (and normal) these challenges are. So join me as I speak with Tania McLean and Melissa Davidson, two pelvic floor physiotherapists. 

We talk about what to expect at a pelvic floor physiotherapy exam (I went for my first!), risk factors of prolapse, top tips on how to support your pelvic floor and more. Let's normalise this kōrero, aye? Join us!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

I have waited so long to say this and the day is finally here! The one and only, the fabulous, the just-as-magical-in-real-life-as-you'd-imagine Suzy Cato joins me for a kōrero.

After a (slightly) unfortunate encounter with my cat, we peeled back the curtain on the so-called always-happy life of Suzy Cato. We talk about losing jobs, the end of dreams, a mother's grief and how she has found her way through the crunchier and more tender parts of life. It's Suzy as we've never heard her before.

We laughed, we cried - who's surprised? Join us.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Mary Holm is a bit of an institution. Her long-standing finance columns, radio appearances and down to earth books on savings and investment, have helped demystify what can be a daunting topic for so many. I'm particularly struck by her encouraging and reassuring tone.

Money doesn't have to be a burden, and that's a view shared by my good friend and first returning podcast guest Te Waka McLeod who's working with whānau in Taranaki to build financial stability. She shares what her late mother taught her about money, as well as offers insight into Te Ao Māori values around the topic.

Catch Te Waka in the last episode of Season 01 - 'Inevitable grief'.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

TV host, MC and co-author of Māori At Home, Māori Made Easyand more, this legend of New Zealand media needs little introduction. Stacey Morrison joins me for a kōrero about settling into your skin. She deep dives into her identity as wahine Māori, tells me what makes her nervous, how 'good girl syndrome' is still a thing for her, and the role spirituality plays in her everyday life.

There was also no shying away from talking about bias and the ongoing journey of better understanding Te Ao Māori here in Aotearoa.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

That's right, not only are we back - we're back chatting menopause. This time, I'm speaking with Niki Bezzant, who has literally written the book on the subject - This Changes Everything: The Honest Guide to Menopause and Perimenopause. 

As Niki says in our kōrero, understanding what's going on in our bodies is so empowering. We talk hormones, weight redistribution, mood swings, self-care habits, anxiety and more. 

I'm also joined by my friend Tori, who shares her perimenopause story with great honesty. 

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

When I decided to make a podcast, I did wonder if anybody was gonna be interested in talking about those tricky aspects of getting older.

Well, I've been delighted by your response, so, we're back for a second season!

Coming up you'll hear Suzy Cato like never before… We’re talking boobs with Jay Jay Feeney, and getting some insider info on the gateway to goodness that is our pelvic floor.

Let’s talk more about menopause, money, anger and more...

Season 2 drops September 8th on Rova and everywhere else you get your favourite podcasts.

Death, grief and loss are universal experiences - including the inevitable grief that accompanies the loss of our parents - an unavoidable season that comes in many different forms.

In this final episode of Season 01, Petra speaks with journalist, broadcaster and former magazine editor, Wendyl Nissen, about her relationship and journey with her late mother who suffered from Alzheimer's, and whose story she wrote about in her book My Mother and Other Secrets.

Petra is then joined by her friend, Te Waka McLeod (Ngāti Mutunga, Te Āti Haunui-a-Pāpārangi), who shares vulnerably about navigating grief since losing both her parents in her 20s. She also gives/gifts us an insight into the way tangihanga are carried out in Taranaki, where she is from - and how these traditions have supported her grief.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

This episode is all about our beautiful, brave, bold, bodies. Too often we have a complex and unhealthy relationship with our fabulous flesh.

First up, Petra speaks with Lisa Grey, clinical manager and lead researcher at BePure scientific wellness clinic. In her day job Lisa encounters hundreds of people who are getting serious about how they treat their bodies, inside and out.

Then New Zealand fashion icon Karen Walker brings her discerning eye to the topic with an encouragement to gain greater perspective and maintain a posture of gratitude.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Everyone loves to talk about sex - but when it is talked about, it feels like we're always talking about the sex lives of young people. Petra invites sex therapist Jo Robertson to tackle the topic and provide advice and encouragement for long-time couples looking to rekindle the passion.

Petra also chats with her friend Helen, who shares personal stories and practical ideas on how she and her long-time partner keep the spark alive. 

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

The first time we got together, Jon Bridges, Nathan Rarere and I spent so long talking about our favourite Ice TV memories that we ran out of time to talk about life since then. (Jonny also had no idea we were recording until he walked in and saw the microphones and cameras!) 

This episode is all those stories - and includes a special chat with my mum, Judi Bagust, recalling her memories of that season in our lives.

Come walk down memory lane with us!

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Petra’s time on Ice TVwasn’t only formative for her, but was highly influential for a generation of TV viewers. Petra reunites with her mates Nathan Rarere and Jon Bridges. Hilarity ensues, along with notes of nostalgia, and comes to land in the things the trio have learned as they’ve grown up and navigated life since being on Ice TV.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

In this episode, Petra explores Aotearoa New Zealand's maturing relationship to the language and culture of Māori, our tangata whenua/indigenous people.

Petra's first guest is radio royalty Robert Rakete (Ngāpuhi) speaking on his career and upbringing - including the fact that Robbie's father was not allowed to speak his own mother tongue of te reo Māori in school. Robbie reflects on the movement he's seen over his life, his hopes for the future, and that now iconic moment of sharing The Breeze's jingle recorded in te reo Māori for the first time.

Petra also speaks with Aroha Tamihana (Ngāti Raukawa/Ngāti Ranginui), an artist based in Tauranga, who creates unique resources celebrating Māori language and culture through her design studio Maimoa Creative. Aroha and her husband did not grow up speaking te reo Māori but they resolved to learn their mother tongue and teach it to their children - it is now their children's first language.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

While we're on the topic of menopause, two of Petra's friends, Miriama Kamo and Robyn Malcolm, join her to swap personal stories from this season of life in perimenopause and menopause - and how each of these wāhine toa are navigating their way through it.⁠

There's something special about knowing we're not in this alone.

Miriama Kamo (Ngāi Tahu/Ngāti Mutunga) is a TVNZ journalist, children's author and television presenter. She currently presents on Māori current affairs programme Marae and TVNZ's Sunday. 

Robyn Malcolm is an actress, whose career has spanned many decades. She is probably best known for six seasons of playing Cheryl West in the television series Outrageous Fortune. She also has a fun line of undies, designed, produced, and manufactured by a team of women right here in New Zealand using ethically sourced, sustainable fabric, and water-based inks.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

This episode is an introduction to menopause with naturopathic doctor, women's health activist, and bestselling author of Hormone Repair Manual, Dr Lara Briden.

In this interview, Petra shares stories from her personal experience of perimenopause and Dr Lara Briden reflects on menopause comments from Petra's Instagram followers.

The goal of the conversation? To demystify a topic that has only recently been gaining more mainstream attention, and to give women, in particular, a more positive and hopeful lens on the experience.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

In a culture obsessed with youth, what has it been like to undergo the ageing journey whilst being a familiar face on our screens? Petra Bagust and Jaquie Brown discuss their own respective experiences of ageing in the public eye, as well as how this cultural space has shifted over recent years and the changes they hope to see in the coming decades.

We also meet Lillian Grace founder of figure.nz who talks how her hair colour affected her presentation and sense of success in the business world.

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.

Kia ora! This is my brand-new podcast about growing up and going grey in Aotearoa New Zealand.

We explore the tricky, chewy grey areas of life - Identity, culture, sex, grief, menopause - nothing is off the table!

I've invited some wonderful wāhine and fab fellas to join me in this eight-part season, mining our experiences for wisdom, with a few laughs along the way.

Join me for the ride.

Petra x

Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker