Playbook Deep Dive

Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) opens up for the first time about his recent defeat, and what he thinks his experiences holding a senate seat in reliably red Ohio since 2006 can teach fellow Democrats attempting to redefine the party’s brand. Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Sherrod Brown is the senior senator from Ohio. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Donald Trump is coming back to the White House. On this episode of Deep Dive, POLITICO’s top Trump-ologist, Meridith McGraw, and Playbook editor Mike DeBonis join host Rachael Bade to discuss how the next Trump presidency will defy our expectations.  Included in this discussion:  Who will be in Trump’s cabinet; who will lead the GOP on the Hill and can Trump really be sure that they’ll cooperate with him? On the Democratic side — how will they respond to their crushing defeat? And will they resist Trump’s every move as doggedly as they did during his first administration? Rachael Bade is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Meridith McGraw is a national political correspondent for POLITICO. Mike DeBonis is the editor of Playbook for POLITICO. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Top election forecasters Lakshya Jain (Split Ticket) and Logan Phillips (Race to the White House) join Playbook co-author Eugene Daniels to give their key insights and predictions for Tuesday. They discuss how to analyze early voting returns, who the remaining swing voters are, and why polls are more useful than most people give them credit for. Stay until the end, where they each share what one race that will be called early on Election Night that will signal to them who the next president is going to be. Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Lakshya Jain is CEO and co-founder of Split Ticket. Logan Phillips is founder of Race to the White House. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Election Day is less than two weeks away. And Donald Trump has been employing an innovative strategy to keep Democrats’ — and an increasingly large number of Republicans’ — doubts about his fitness for office at bay. The former president has been burnishing his image on a nontraditional media spread of podcasts, golf outings, and shifts working at McDonald's.  To understand Trump’s own thinking about the campaign, including the risks of this unorthodox strategy and the most recent indictments of his character, Playbook co-author Rachael Bade sat down with one of his most trusted advisers: Jason Miller. Miller and Trump have a long history together. He’s worked on each of Trump’s campaigns since 2016, in roles ranging from comms guru to senior strategist, and he isn’t afraid to elaborate on the campaign’s strategy or defend Trump’s most controversial comments. Rachael Bade is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Jason Miller is a senior adviser to President Donald Trump. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Trump, Harris, and the vast network of campaigns, Super PACs, and down ballot candidates operating alongside them are now on pace to spend $1 billion before election day in Pennsylvania. For the time being, it is the center of the political universe. On this episode of Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Eugene Daniels is joined by two local experts on the race: Philadelphia City Councilmember Isaiah Thomas, who is the Chair of Black Men for Harris Pennsylvania; and Charlie Gerow, a Trump surrogate, Republican consultant in Harrisburg, and former candidate for governor. Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Isaiah Thomas is a Philadelphia City Councilmember At-Large and Majority Whip. Charlie Gerow is the CEO of Quantum Communications and a Republican consultant. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The 2024 election. It’s a contest between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. But increasingly, it also looks like it’s girls versus boys.  Playbook’s Rachael Bade caught up with Sarah Longwell, Executive Director of Republican Voters Against Trump, Publisher of The Bulwark, and Host of "The Focus Group" Podcast, to learn what is driving a record-setting gender gap this election cycle. Longwell has conducted hundreds of focus groups and knows intimately how voters, in their own words, are processing Harris and Trump’s candidacies, and what issues and ideas will determine who they vote for. Rachael Bade is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Sarah Longwell is the CEO of Longwell Partners, Publisher of The Bulwark, and host of "The Focus Group" podcast Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joining Playbook’s Eugene Daniels on this episode of Deep Dive are two pollsters who know how to find the signal in what has been a very noisy election. John Anzalone aka “Anzo,” was Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama’s pollster. And Greg Strimple is a veteran of John McCain, Chris Christie, Rick Perry, and John Cornyn’s campaigns. Together, they dissect why this election’s polling is so close despite all the crazy news; who the swing voters are that both Trump and Harris are spending millions of dollars to reach; and if ticket-splitting is about to have a resurgence.  Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. John Anzalone is the founder of Impact Research. Greg Strimple is the founder and president of GS Strategy Group. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

James Carville is one of the oldest and best known political strategists in America. He also is the subject of a new CNN documentary called “Winning is Everything, Stupid.” On this episode of Deep Dive, Carville talks with host Ryan Lizza about his outlook on the election, including why he’s not so sure that it’ll be a close race once the votes are counted; what he thinks Kamala Harris could learn from Trump’s huckster style; and why Carville has absolutely no remorse for voicing his complaint that the Democratic Party’s culture was dominated by what he calls “preachy females.” Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. James Carville is a Democratic political strategist. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brian Fallon, senior communications adviser for Kamala Harris’ presidential campaign, joins Playbook’s Eugene Daniels to discuss the inner workings of the vice president’s campaign, including why her positions on the issues have shifted since 2019, when she’ll start opening up to the press and how her view of Trump differs from Biden’s. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Brian Fallon is senior communications adviser for Harris for America. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mike Murphy, the storied GOP strategist and co-host of the popular “Hacks On Tap” podcast, joins Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss Tuesday’s debate and why some very strong winds are still at Trump’s back; how Murphy would tweak Kamala Harris’s message; what might become of the Republican party after Trump and how he, Mike Murphy, almost killed JD Vance’s dream of being a senator back in 2017. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Mike Murphy is a Republican consultant and co-host of "Hacks On Tap." Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Everyone knows the Latino vote will be decisive in this presidential election year. But our guest today says most of what you know about Latino voters and how to win them over is wrong.  Mike Madrid is a third-generation Mexican-American and one of the country’s leading political strategists when it comes to Latino voters. He was a senior operative for the California Republican Party who rubbed shoulders with the likes of George W. Bush and his generation of GOP officials. Madrid later got jaded by Trump and co-founded the Lincoln Project.  In his new book, “The Latino Century”, Madrid lays out a breadcrumb trail for both Republicans and Democrats to win this decisive block of voters, who he believes are very much up for grabs this year. He shares his findings with host & Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza as well as the reason why both parties are doing something right to win them — and something wrong.  Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO. Mike Madrid is a Latino GOP political consultant and author of "The Latino Century." Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.  Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A special bonus episode from Deep Dive's POLITICO sister podcast, Power Play: With the U.S. presidential debate now confirmed, our Power Play guests explain the tips and tricks that could help Donald Trump or Kamala Harris win their first head-to-head encounter on Sept. 10 — and why there has been a pre-debate row over format and mics. POLITICO’s Anne McElvoy is joined by Brett O’Donnell, a veteran expert on preparing candidates for debate on both sides of the pond, having coached Republicans Ron DeSantis, Mitt Romney, John McCain and George W. Bush, as well as prepping Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson for their televised tussles in the U.K. Then POLITICO’s Rachael Bade, co-author of our Playbook in Washington, reveals which way the political winds are blowing, following last week’s momentous Democratic National Convention and how the rival Trump-Harris campaigns are preparing for the forthcoming debate. Find more of POLITICO’s Power Play podcast here. Playbook Deep Dive, hosted by Ryan Lizza, will return next week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Democratic kingmaker Nancy Pelosi has come to be pegged as the chief force behind President Joe Biden’s decision to step down from his reelection campaign — a claim that she refuses to dignify much.  While Pelosi no longer wields the Speaker’s gavel, its absence hasn’t done much to stifle her power within the party. She’s not only the first female Speaker of the House, but also one of the most talented political tacticians of her generation.  POLITICO’s senior political columnist and politics bureau chief Jonathan Martin sat down with the Speaker Emerita at the CNN-POLITICO Grill on the last day of the Democratic National Convention.  JMart and Pelosi covered what state Pelosi believes to be key to retaking the House; how a President Kamala Harris would need to govern; that time when party transcended heritage in her snub of a New York Republican; her relationship with successor Hakeem Jeffries and what she really thinks of that DIY pin of her image that floated around the convention. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO.Nancy Pelosi is the Speaker Emerita of the U.S. House of Representatives. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders joins Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza to give his candid thoughts on Kamala Harris’s presidential campaign, including whether he thinks Joe Biden should have stepped aside in the first place; how Democrats can win back young people, minorities, and progressives; as well as where he agrees with Harris’s policies, and where he thinks she needs to lean in his direction to win. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Bernie Sanders is the senior senator from Vermont.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With the Democratic National Convention just days away, Doug Sosnik, a longtime Dem strategist best known for being a top adviser to Bill Clinton, joins the show to help unpack the new fundamentals of the 2024 presidential campaign.   Sosnik and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza discuss: Why the gender gap is getting larger — and how it could impact the election in ways that have not yet been fully appreciated; why JD Vance might influence the election more than Tim Walz; two metrics can tell you the most about the state-of-the-race; why Omaha, Nebraska might be the most important place in this presidential election; and why Sosnik thinks Kamala Harris has the potential to be like Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Doug Sosnik is a Democratic political strategist.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Anita Dunn left her position as a senior advisor to president Joe Biden this week, marking the end of an era for the White House. She was a key architect of his 2020 presidential campaign and one of his closest advisors throughout her tenure.  On this episode of Deep Dive, Dunn joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan LIzza to talk about the extraordinary series of events that lead to Biden dropping out of the presidential race, including: the pivotal decision to call for a June debate with Trump; what Dunn was thinking as she watched Biden struggle through the event; the strategy she and her colleagues developed to fight the calls for Biden to step aside; Biden’s final days as the nominee; the new electoral opportunities now available to Harris and a lot more.  Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Anita Dunn is a former adviser in the Biden Administration.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When President Joe Biden dropped out of the race and the Democratic party rallied around Kamala Harris as his replacement, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper was widely considered to be a top choice to serve as Harris’s running mate. But Cooper did something unusual: he told the Harris team he didn’t want to be considered as her running mate. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks to Cooper about why he took himself out of contention and how some weird local politics influenced his decision.  Also discussed in this episode of the show: Cooper’s conversations with Harris, Biden, and Nancy Pelosi as Democratic leaders navigated the post-debate crisis that lead to Harris’s ascension; how Cooper coached the president in the last days of Biden’s campaign; and whether or not you should believe the hype about Democrats flipping North Carolina this year. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Roy Cooper is the governor of North Carolina.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Playbook co-author Eugene Daniels and POLITICO politics bureau chief Jonathan Martin join host Ryan Lizza to tackle questions about Vice President Kamala Harris’s new role at the top of the Democratic ticket, including: What really caused Joe Biden to end his quest for a second term? How did Kamala Harris lock up the nomination so fast? And what is really going on inside her campaign right now? How have the issues, swing states, and demographics that will decide the 2024 election changed? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the Democrats vying to serve as vice president? And how is Donald Trump responding to all of this? Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Congressman Richard Hudson is chairman of the National Republican Campaign Committee, which is to say, he’s in charge of delivering a majority in November for Speaker Mike Johnson and possibly President Donald Trump. In this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Hudson discusses how the recent assassination attempt on Donald Trump and the possibility of Joe Biden leaving the Democratic ticket are influencing his strategy for House Republicans this November. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Richard Hudson is the representative for North Carolina's 9th district and chairman of the NRCC.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Georgia Governor Brian Kemp joins for a bonus episode of Playbook Deep Dive.  In a live interview from the Republican National Convention, Kemp — a swing state governor with a famously conflicted relationship with Trump — opines on how Saturday’s assassination attempt will change both Trump and Biden’s election strategy; his thoughts on J.D. Vance, Trump's running mate; what his advice to Trump is for his convention speech and everything after; and whether or not he is courting a position in Trump’s cabinet. Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Brian Kemp is the governor of Georgia. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Elaine Kamarck is a longtime member of the DNC’s rules committee, a scholar at Brookings, a former advisor to top Democrats such as Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Walter Mondale; and author of “Primary Politics: Everything You Need to Know about How America Nominates Its Presidential Candidates.” On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Eugene Daniels asks Kamarck all of your questions about how the Democratic Party would choose a new nominee should Joe Biden step aside.  Topics include: How and when Joe Biden would go about dropping out; if his delegates can rebel against him if he doesn’t; whether or not he can choose a successor; how exactly an open convention would unfold in Chicago; and what she thinks the public’s reaction will be if the Democratic nominee for president is chosen by a handful of party insiders in smoke-filled back rooms. Eugene Daniels is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Elaine Kamarck is a scholar at The Brookings Institution.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Utah Governor Spencer Cox is a longtime Trump critic who is known nationally for his work to depolarize American politics.  This week, Cox easily defeated a far-right opponent in the Republican primary. So too did a slate of other Utah Republicans. While national Republicans continue to move in Trump’s direction, in Utah, the Romney faction of the GOP is still holding its own. On this episode of Deep Dive, Cox joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss Utah politics, as well as Cox’s disagreements with Trump; how he’s preparing to be cast as MAGA’s next boogeyman; what he thinks Trump’s other Republican critics, such as Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, get wrong; and why “disagreeing better” doesn’t mean giving up your most strongly held beliefs. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Spencer Cox is the governor of Utah.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bob Bauer is President Joe Biden’s personal lawyer and was general counsel to both of Barack Obama’s presidential campaigns. But over the last three decades, he’s developed another specialty practice: playing the role of his candidate’s rival during debate prep. Bauer has helped Democratic candidates prepare for debates by playing the likes of Bernie Sanders, Al Gore, and Donald Trump. He’s also been involved with efforts to reform the process and production of presidential debates themselves. So with the first presidential debate less than one week away, and both Biden and Trump cramming to prepare for it, Bauer is joining the show to preview the event, as well as to discuss his new book, “The Unraveling: Reflections on Politics without Ethics and Democracy in Crisis”. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Bob Bauer is a lawyer for President Biden and a veteran Democratic debate coach. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

South Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn is often considered the single most important person in helping Joe Biden win the Democratic nomination in 2020. Now, in 2024, Clyburn is one of Biden’s six campaign co-chairs.  On this episode of Deep Dive, Clyburn joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss: Biden’s weakness with Black and Latino voters; the rebellion on the left over Israel’s war in Gaza; the continued Democratic carping about the Biden campaign’s messaging; Biden’s dismal approval ratings; who will be the post-Biden leaders of the Democratic Party; what side he’s taking in that New York Democratic primary that’s pitting the likes of Hakeem Jeffries against Hillary Clinton; and more. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jim Clyburn is a U.S. Congressman from South Carolina. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), one of President Joe Biden’s closest foreign policy advisors, gives his assessment of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s controversial upcoming address in front of Congress, the politics of the Hunter Biden trial, why Coons thinks the president’s executive order on asylum is hollow, how our allies around the world are bracing themselves for the coming election, what would happen if China invaded Taiwan in a Trump versus a Biden administration, and his honest assessment of what’s changed about Biden as he’s aged,. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Chris Coons is a U.S. senator from Delaware. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

POLITICO’s senior legal affairs reporter Kyle Cheney and legal columnist Ankush Khardori debrief on what happened at the Hush Money trial, how Trump’s team may have hurt its own case, and what their best plan is to win an appeal after Thursday’s massive guilty verdict.  Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Kyle Cheney is a senior legal affairs reporter for POLITICO.Ankush Khardori is a columnist and senior writer for POLITICO Magazine.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.) joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss his entry into the Senate GOP leadership race to succeed Mitch McConnell. They discuss why Sen. Scott is running, what Donald Trump told him about his decision, his relationship with key Republicans such as McConnell and Susie Wiles, his policy agenda on foreign aid, abortion, entitlements, and Israel if he’s elected leader, Trump’s running mate choices, and the importance of having a purpose in life. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Rick Scott is the junior U.S. senator from Florida. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Wednesday morning, Frank Fahrenkopf received a letter from the Biden presidential campaign that ruined his day. Fahrenkopf is co-chair of the Commission on Presidential Debates, which has produced 33 debates since 1988, the first election year it was in business. He was planning on four more this year: three with Biden and Trump as well as the quadrennial vice presidential debate. But the Biden campaign told Fahrenkopf that the president would not be participating in any of them. Instead, the Biden campaign announced that it would negotiate with the Trump campaign and individual media organizations to plan two debates outside of the Commission’s process. By the end of the day Biden and Trump were set to debate in June on CNN and in September on ABC. On this episode of Deep Dive, Fahrenkopf joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss the fall-out from this decision, including the roles of Biden, Trump, and Anita Dunn; why he thinks RFK Jr. may have grounds for a lawsuit against CNN and what some of his favorite behind-the-scenes stories are from his decades of producing debates.  Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Frank Fahrenkopf is the co-chair of the Commission on Presidential Debates. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fresh off fending off a hard-right coup attempt, the House speaker opens up about his strategy and his future plans for the GOP Conference. Topics in this lengthy interview include: Johnson’s victory over the GOP radicals; Israel; Ukraine; January 6th; the Trump trials; abortion; and his relationships with key Washington leaders, such as Joe Biden, Hakeem Jeffries, Kevin McCarthy and, of course, Donald Trump. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Rachael Bade is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mike Johnson is the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Jerry Nadler, who has represented a big piece of Manhattan since 1992, is one of the longest-serving Jewish members of the House.  He’s also a Columbia University alumnus: he was on campus in 1968 when police cleared Hamilton Hall of anti-Vietnam war protesters. Nadler is a close observer of the Middle East and the politics of Israel in the U.S. And he’s the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, where he’s long seen himself as a champion of civil liberties. All of this background helped put Nadler at the center of a swirl of events this week as pro-Palestinian protesters at Columbia were ejected from Hamilton Hall, as President Biden made his first public remarks about campus protests, as a ceasefire deal between Hamas and Israel seemed tantalizingly close and as the House passed, by an overwhelming majority of 320 to 91, the Antisemitism Awareness Act — a bill against which Nadler led the opposition. On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talked talks with Nadler about all of this and about Trump’s interview in Time Magazine, the potential for disruption at the Democratic Convention in Chicago, the vote Nadler most regrets in his long career and the nature of truth. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jerry Nadler is the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The biggest movie in the country right now is about a civil war — in America. If you see the film “Civil War” at a theater in downtown Washington, the scenes of the Lincoln Memorial exploding and the White House being attacked are jarring when you exit into the D.C. air.  The movie is writer and director Alex Garland’s very in-your-face attempt to imagine the unimaginable in America — an authoritarian leader in the White House, intractable political differences being resolved through violence and the very specific horrors of modern warfare — urban fighting, refugee camps, mass atrocities, the collapse of the currency — all the things that we associate with stuff that can happen over there happening right here in the United States. “Civil War” is also a movie about journalism. It follows four reporters traveling from New York to Washington, D.C., via a circuitous route through Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Virginia.  The movie takes on a lot of the weighty issues we talk about on shows like this one: media ethics, political polarization, disinformation polluting our media ecosystem and the potential threat from an autocratic leader. Wagner Moura plays a hardened war correspondent addicted to the battlefield. He also provides some much needed levity in the movie. Moura is best-known for his role as Pablo Escobar in “Narcos.” But he’s also a former journalist, a political activist and a writer and director himself. His 2019 movie “Marighella” about the coup and counter-revolution in Brazil in the 1960s incurred the wrath of then-president Jair Bolsonaro in Moura’s home country of Brazil.  Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talked with Moura on Thursday just as Washington’s annual White House Correspondents’ Association Dinner festivities were getting under way. It’s the time of year when the relationship between journalists, politicians and Hollywood is at its peak in this town.  They had a fascinating conversation about how making a movie about a new civil war changed Moura’s own personal thinking about politics, how his experience with Bolsonaro in Brazil is a warning for Americans and the role of art in politics. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Wagner Moura is a star of A24's film "Civil War".Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After months of delay, this week House Speaker Mike Johnson advanced his much awaited version of the Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan foreign aid package. Standing between that legislation and the House floor: two very powerful committees.  First, the House Appropriations Committee, which controls about a third of federal spending. And second, the Rules Committee, which controls access to the House floor, and which has become a problem for GOP leaders in this Congress. Johnson needed to pick the lock on both of these committees. And there is one Member of Congress who has chaired them both. Not just in the past year — but in the past month: Oklahoma Republican Tom Cole. Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza caught up with Cole on Thursday afternoon after he’d just testified in support of the foreign aid bill in front of his old committee.  They got deep into the weeds of why the Rules Committee has been such a trouble spot for recent GOP speakers; and they discussed Johnson’s tenure so far and whether Cole thinks the Speaker can hang on as members threaten to oust him.  Cole also previewed how he will run the Appropriations Committee, including how he’ll handle the controversial earmarks process. And Cole answered some prying questions from some of his favorite historians on the subject of Donald Trump. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Tom Cole is the chair of the House Appropriations committee. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael Cohen may be the only person standing between Donald Trump and jail. Three of Trump’s four criminal trials — the ones in Washington, Florida and Georgia — seem hopelessly stalled. But on this coming Monday in New York, the hush money case is set to begin. Deep Dive guest and former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen is the star witness in the case. On this episode, he joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss how he will defend the assault on his credibility at the trial, why Alvin Bragg’s case is stronger than analysts believe, the legal tactics he’s expecting from Trump’s team and whether he ever regrets breaking with Trump. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Michael Cohen is Donald Trump's former lawyer and fixer.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On April 1, the Florida Supreme Court issued a pair of decisions on abortion that led the Biden campaign to declare that Florida, which Democrats have lost twice to Donald Trump, was now “winnable.” The only problem with that? Some of Florida’s abortion rights advocates want the president to stay away. At issue is Amendment 4, a measure on November’s ballot that would enshrine abortion in the state constitution — and will also need Republican and independent votes to pass.  On this episode of Deep Dive, Anna Hochkammer, the executive director of the Florida Women’s Freedom Coalition and one of the architects of Florida’s abortion ballot initiative, joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss the delicate politics of building a bipartisan coalition around abortion rights in a red state like Florida. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Anna Hochkammer is the executive director of the Florida Women's Freedom Coalition. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A year ago today, Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich was arrested in Russia and charged with espionage, an allegation he and the Journal said was absurd. The State Department declared that Gershkovich was “wrongfully detained,” an official status that commits the Biden administration to work for his release. Journal publisher Almar Latour has played a key role in the legal and diplomatic effort to free Gershkovich. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with Latour to learn the inside story of this effort.  They discuss: how the shadow of basketball star Brittney Griner’s detainment in Russia is influencing talks to bring Evan home; why a Russian hitman serving a life sentence in Germany may be the key to unlocking a deal with Putin; and how the 2024 election may affect Gershkovich’s fate.  Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Almar Latour is CEO of Dow Jones and publisher of The Wall Street Journal.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The politics of the Israel-Hamas war have become one of the most divisive issues in the Democratic Party. Mark Mellman, the president of Democratic Majority for Israel – and a longtime pollster – joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to get into the weeds on the new politics of Israel within the Democratic Party.  Other subjects covered include the polling data behind Biden’s age, Trump’s hold on the GOP, double doubters, abortion, the fate of Nikki Haley voters, and whether you should bother paying attention to polls in the first place.  Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mark Mellman is the president of Democratic Majority for Israel.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TikTok, abortion, and IVF: three of the biggest issues in American politics right now and Kellyanne Conway is in the middle of all of them.   Conway has been advising Donald Trump and Mike Pence for years and lately she’s best known for urging the GOP to leave TikTok alone and moderate the party’s message on reproductive rights. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza has a spirited conversation with Conway at POLITICO’s Health Care Summit, where they recorded Deep Dive’s first-ever live show. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Kellyanne Conway is a GOP strategist and former Trump adviser. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

First ladies are among the most powerful advisers in any White House and Jill Biden is no exception. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza is joined by NYT White House correspondent Katie Rogers, who recently published  “American Woman: The Transformation of the Modern First Lady, from Hillary Clinton to Jill Biden,” an authoritative account of how this century’s first ladies have influenced the nation.  Ryan and Katie discuss Jill Biden and Melania Trump’s roles in staffing, campaigning, and policy decisions; sensitive items from their times in the White House, such as Melania and Donald’s prenup; and whether or not Jill Biden has ever forgiven Kamala Harris for what she said about Joe in 2020. Additionally, Katie opened up about the time her editors at the New York Times sent her to Arkansas and forced her to report a story about the Bidens that she didn’t want to cover — and how it ended up forcing Jill and Joe to confront an uncomfortable truth about their family. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Katie Rogers is a White House correspondent for The New York Times. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Carlos Lozada is a columnist for The New York Times, and before that, the longtime nonfiction book critic for The Washington Post.  In 2019, Lozada won the Pulitzer Prize for criticism for a series of pieces that judges described as “trenchant and searching reviews and essays that joined warm emotion and careful analysis in examining a broad range of books addressing government and the American experience.” Well, he's now collected nearly a decade of such reviews in what he calls “The Washington Book: How to Read Politics and Politicians,” which was released this week.  “If the art of politics can be to subtract meaning from language to produce more and more words that say less and less,” he writes, “then it is my purpose as a journalist to try to find that meaning and put it back.” He reads a lot of books by politicians. As he likes to say, he reads all those books so that you don't have to.  But he's found a way to use those books to say something interesting about those same politicians.  So what does Carlos's close reading of the likes of Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Mike Pence, Ron DeSantis and many others reveal about our politics in 2024? It turns out quite a lot. On this week’s episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza sits down with Carlos in POLITICO's offices to find out more. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Carlos Lozada is an opinion columnist and co-host of the weekly “Matter of Opinion” podcast for The New York Times. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) has a way of being in the middle of things, whether it’s standing up to Trump after Jan. 6 when many in her party kept quiet, helping overthrow House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, or warning Republicans about how they were wrong when it comes to the politics of abortion.  But some of that drama is catching up with Mace back home in South Carolina, which on Saturday will be the center of the political world as voters head to the polls in the state’s presidential primary. Mace is now back in Trump’s corner and facing a primary which features not one but two candidates at least partly motivated by revenge: a candidate backed by McCarthy and Mace’s own former chief of staff. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks to Rep. Mace about her on-again, off-again history with Trump; the revenge plots playing out in her primary; her prediction about Trump’s margin of victory on Saturday; and the backstory to that time she wore a giant scarlet “A” on the House floor. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Nancy Mace is the representative for South Carolina's 1st district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Jim Himes (D-Conn.), the ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee, joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss everything you might want to know about Russian space weapons, Section 702 reforms, and the behind-the-scenes action at the Intelligence Committee during a week of extraordinary volatility.  Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jim Himes is the representative for Connecticut's 4th district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) was the Democratic lead on the much anticipated bipartisan border legislation that was supposed to sail through the Senate and unlock funding for the war in Ukraine. But everything went sideways this week when Republicans, at Donald Trump’s insistence, abruptly turned against the bill. On this episode of Deep Dive, Sen. Murphy tells host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza what really happened behind the scenes in the negotiations that assembled the bill and how things unraveled so fast. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Sen. Chris Murphy is the junior senator from Connecticut.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Congresswoman Veronica Escobar (D-Texas) discusses the unique role she plays as one of President Joe Biden’s campaign co-chairs who is also opposed to some of the key policies he is pursuing on immigration and in the Middle East.   On this episode, she tells Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza: Her views on Biden’s border policies and the senate bill  Her own ideas of what a winning immigration policy looks like  Her concerns about Biden’s policies in the Middle East — and what she fears is the potential political fallout for his re-election What might be on the agenda at the next secret meeting of Biden’s campaign co-chairs Whether she’d rather Biden run against Nikki Haley or Donald Trump Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Veronica Escobar is the representative for Texas's 16th district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mark Penn is best known for two things: his devotion to centrist politics and his former role as the top pollster and strategist for Bill and Hillary Clinton. Lately, he’s added a third: a barrage of polls that show a large majority of Americans are crying out for an alternative to Trump and Biden.  On this episode of Deep Dive, he talks with host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza about his relationship (or lack thereof) with No Labels – a group promoting a third-party candidacy – the recent GOP primary results, his controversial polls, and why he thinks that Nikki Haley may still have a big role to play in this year’s election. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mark Penn is the CEO of Stagwell and former Clinton strategist.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joe McQuaid, the longtime publisher of The New Hampshire Union Leader – the 161-year old conservative paper that has operated like a Republican party boss for many decades – joins Deep Dive to tell host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza everything you need to know about Tuesday’s New Hampshire primary, including whether or not Nikki Haley can win, if she’ll get the Union Leader’s endorsement, and whether New Hampshire’s primacy in American politics has come to an end. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Joe McQuaid is the former publisher of The New Hampshire Union Leader.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Axelrod, the former top Obama strategist, has been offering some tough medicine to Joe Biden’s presidential campaign. In November, he suggested Biden think long and hard about running for reelection. He has been withering about Biden’s skills as a candidate and communicator. He is deeply concerned about the president’s age. And unlike other Democrats in the anti-bedwetting set, Axe has been clear that the party should be freaked out by the polls.   On this episode of Deep Dive, he joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss his critiques of the Biden operation, the parallels with 2012 when he led strategy for the Obama reelection, and what it’s like to be a critic of your own party when most partisans these days are expected to mouth the party line. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Axelrod is a Democratic political strategist and a CNN senior political commentator.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the Iowa caucuses near, Playbook’s Ryan Lizza and POLITICO Politics Bureau Chief Jonathan Martin go deep on what we know – and what we’ll soon find out – about Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Nikki Haley, and Ron DeSantis’ campaigns. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Arthur Brooks ran the American Enterprise Institute for more than a decade. Now, he’s a fulltime happiness scientist. Here’s his guide to making it in Washington without sacrificing your humanity. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Arthur Brooks is the Parker Gilbert Montgomery Professor of the Practice of Nonprofit and Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and the author of "Build the Life You Want: The Art and Science of Getting Happier".Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A week of new developments in impeachment, Donald Trump’s D.C. case, and Hunter Biden’s congressional inquiry showcased how the collision of law and politics will determine much of Republicans’ and Democrats’ political fortunes in 2024. POLITICO legal editor James Romoser and national correspondent Betsy Woodruff Swan join to discuss the implications. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.James Romoser is the legal editor for POLITICO.Betsy Woodruff Swan is a national correspondent for POLITICO.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The GOP’s lead negotiator on the embattled Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan, and border security supplemental believes that a compromise will happen. But do his Democratic colleagues in the Senate and his fellow Republicans in the House agree? Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.James Lankford is the senior U.S. senator from Oklahoma.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

House Majority Leader Steve Scalise illuminates what happened behind closed doors after Kevin McCarthy’s ousting as well as what to expect next on impeachment; why he will vote against expelling George Santos; and how Speaker Mike Johnson is trying to use immigration to tame hardliners when it comes to the spending showdown with Joe Biden. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Steve Scalise is the House Majority Leader. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

John Judis and Ruy Teixeira, co-authors of “The Emerging Democratic Majority,” are back with a new book that argues that the Democrats are imperiled by a “shadow party” that is forcing them into “radical” positions on cultural issues and diverting them away from their core economic issues.  Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.John Judis  is editor at large at Talking Points Memo and co-author of "Where Have All the Democrats Gone?"Ruy Teixeira is a Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and co-author of "Where Have All the Democrats Gone?"Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Australian TV hosts Chas Licciardello and John Barron explain how American politics has influenced culture and government in their homeland; and which single feature of Australian politics could fix many of America’s biggest problems. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Chas Licciardello is a comedian and co-host of Planet America.John Barron is a journalist, broadcaster and co-host of Planet America.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this week’s episode of Deep Dive, Pulitzer Prize winner David Leonhardt joins host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to talk about his new book and what it says about how Democrats can save their relationship with working class voters. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Leonhardt is a senior writer for the New York Times and the author of "Ours Was the Shining Future: The Story of the American Dream."Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Since the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision in June 2022, the GOP has repeatedly paid a price electorally for its stance on abortion. The chaos has been dispiriting to the anti-abortion activists who helped engineer the Dobbs decision in the first place. And now they think they have a new political strategy to get Republicans out of their defensive crouch and to start winning again on this issue.  The woman leading this effort is Marjorie Dannenfelser, the head of Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America, one of the most important institutions in the GOP firmament. She’s known as the woman who killed Roe. Dannenfelser and her colleagues are plotting, financing, and staffing the Republican Party’s counter attack on abortion. Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza sat down with her at SBA’s Virginia headquarters this week, partly because she had some news she wanted to share about how and where anti-abortion activists are making their first big move. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Marjorie Dannenfelser is the president of Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza joins Rep. Mike Lawler (R-N.Y.) to learn how he and other GOP moderates, institutionalists, and Biden-district Republicans have organized against Jim Jordan’s campaign to be speaker of the House… and what the endgame is for Republicans to escape this mess. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mike Lawler is the representative for New York's 17th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jon Finer, President Joe Biden’s principal deputy national security adviser, opens up to Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza about how the administration is approaching some of the thorniest problems related to the war in Israel, including: striking the right balance between supporting Israel and expressing concerns about an extreme response; Biden’s warnings to Iran; and whether America should now consider itself at war with Hamas. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jon Finer is the White House deputy national security adviser.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marty Baron ran The Washington Post’s newsroom for nine years. In that time, Marty clashed with then-president Donald Trump. He pacified rebellions from his younger and increasingly more ideological staff. And he partnered with Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos to take on arguably the biggest disrupter of all: technology.  He’s written about all of this — and a lot more — in his new book, "Collision of Power: Trump, Bezos, and The Washington Post." Today, Marty is joining Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza to spill the tea on what actually happened between Bezos and Trump; what the media should be doing to earn your trust; and whether billionaires like Jeff Bezos are secretly pulling the strings behind closed doors. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Marty Baron is the retired executive editor of The Washington Post. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The center of presidential politics this week was the swing state of Michigan. Trump won the longtime Democratic stronghold in 2016, and Biden won it back in 2020. It will be pivotal again in 2024. And that’s why both candidates flew to metro Detroit on consecutive days this week to insert themselves into the United Auto Workers’ strike against the so-called “Detroit Three” — General Motors, Ford, and Stellantis, the company that owns Chrysler. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza joins Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-Mich.), the House’s key player when it comes to the UAW strike, for a conversation about the strike’s political consequences, why she thinks that Democrats may be in danger of losing Michigan in 2024, and why the strike’s biggest sticking point is something you might not even have heard about. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Debbie Dingell is the representative for Michigan's 6th district. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After losing a series of votes this week to avoid a government shutdown, Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy has effectively lost his majority. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza asks the number two Democratic leader in the House, Minority Whip Katherine Clark, what price McCarthy will have to pay for Democrats to lend their votes to passing a CR and fending-off a potential challenge to his speakership. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Katherine Clark is the House Minority Whip and the representative for Massachusetts's 5th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It would be easy to look at the House of Representatives and assume that the members of the Freedom Caucus — and not Speaker Kevin McCarthy — are the ones who are actually in charge. But is that actually true?  On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with one of the top House moderates, Ohio Congressman Dave Joyce. Joyce is the Chairman of the Republican Governance Group, the pre-eminent faction for GOP centrists; and he’s also a senior appropriator, which means he’s one of the people who has to figure out how to avoid the possible government shutdown lurking at the end of the month. Ryan caught-up with Joyce in his Washington office to learn how the Republicans you don’t see quoted on Breitbart are approaching the tumultuous issues gripping the lower chamber.  They talked at length about the rationale behind McCarthy’s new impeachment gambit; if and how the Speaker can claw together the votes to avoid a government shutdown; the odds that McCarthy will face a vote to remove him as Speaker; and what it’s really like in private between Joyce and members of the Freedom Caucus he battles in public. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Joyce is the representative for Ohio's 14th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What makes President Joe Biden? We’re all pretty familiar with Vice President Biden and Senator Biden. But in his latest iteration as commander-in-chief, it hasn’t been as easy to see inside his mind.  Cracking into Biden’s brain and inside the White House has been a challenge for the media. He’s surrounded by a tight “clan” of family and advisors who have achieved Biden lifer status — and they don’t often leak. It consists of his sister Valerie, and the five advisers known as the Quint: Steve Ricchetti, Mike Donilon, Anita Dunn, Bruce Reed, and now former chief of staff Ron Klain.  It’s been a notoriously tough circle to penetrate.  But now one person has done it: Franklin Foer, who spent the last few years inside the heads of Biden and his team and has written the definitive account of President Biden’s first two years in office called “The Last Politician: Inside Joe Biden's White House and the Struggle for America's Future.” The book was originally supposed to be about the first one hundred days. But the story was too interesting to stop. Next, he planned to wrap up after the passage of Build Back Better. The book ended up growing into a two-year project that ends tidily with the midterms. But where the book really shines when it grapples with the core of who Biden is —  both psychologically and ideologically. Whether you love Biden or hate him,  Frank’s book just might change your mind about how you understand him. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza sits down with Frank Foer to dig into the revelations that fill the pages of his new book, like how pivotal Biden’s inner circle is to his decision making; his relationship with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy; the low point of the presidency so far; and what’s in store for Biden as he prepares for another run as the oldest sitting president in history. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Franklin Foer is a staff writer at The Atlantic. Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Wednesday night, eight Republican presidential candidates gathered in Milwaukee for the first GOP primary debate. There was a lot on the line for each of them. But there was also an enormous amount at stake for the news organization that hosted the debate: Fox News. Consider the cross currents that the two Fox moderators, Martha McCallum and Bret Baier, had to deal with:  First there was Trump, who refused to participate and lashed out at Fox and its talent, including Baier, on social media. Then there was Tucker Carlson, McCallum and Baier’s former star colleague who is in messy litigation with the network, and who nabbed Trump for himself and counter-programmed the evening with an interview that aired simultaneously with the Fox debate.  Then there was Rupert Murdoch hovering in the background. In the days before the debate there were new reports that the man who runs Fox, MacCallum and Baier’s boss, has his own strong feelings about who the GOP nominee should be.  If that isn’t enough, on the eve of the debate, several candidates who didn’t qualify to be on stage threatened to sue.   Add to that the challenges of being the ones asking the uncomfortable questions in that arena on Wednesday. The candidates are primed to pounce on you if it serves their political interests. The boisterous crowd of partisans could turn on you at any moment.  So what was it like behind the scenes at the Fox News debate? How did the hosts prepare, including for a possible last-minute appearance by Trump? What did they think of the highly caffeinated Mike Pence interrupting them at every turn? What was the deal with DeSantis and Christie during that one hand-raising moment? And whose idea was that UFO question, anyway?  On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza asks Martha and Bret those questions and a lot more as they bring us inside what is perhaps the most important event of the GOP primary so far. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Martha MacCallum is the anchor and executive editor of "The Story with Martha MacCallum" on Fox News Channel.Bret Baier is the Fox News Channel's anchor and executive editor of "Special Report with Bret Baier" and chief political anchor of the network.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This coming Wednesday, something big is happening in Milwaukee: the first Republican presidential debate.  On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host & Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with North Dakota Governor & GOP presidential candidate Doug Burgum about how he hatched one of the most innovative schemes in memory to qualify for Wednesday's GOP debate; how he’s preparing to compete on the stage with big leaguers like Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump – if Trump shows up; how his background as a conservative in the tech world informs his worldview; and why one photograph of him cleaning a chimney in a tuxedo changed his life. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Doug Burgum is the governor of North Dakota and a GOP presidential candidate.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, almost every Republican running for president is headed to the Iowa State Fair, famous for its fried Twinkies and statues of farm animals made out of butter and —  every four years — extremely embarrassing photos of candidates eating unwieldy treats. The Iowa State Fair also kicks off a new more intense period of the Republican primary season as nationally televised debates begin this month and the five month countdown to the Iowa Caucuses begins.  Iowa’s importance in presidential nomination contests ebbs and flows and this year the state looms as more important than ever.  The conventional wisdom among Republicans is that if Donald Trump’s opponents can’t slow him down in Iowa, then the race may be over.   Joining Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza for this episode is the man responsible for administering this critical contest – the chairman of the Iowa Republican Party, Jeff Kaufmann. Kaufmann is also a history professor and in the course of this conversation, he teaches a master class on everything you need to know about the Iowa Republican caucuses and what it will take to win them in 2024. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jeff Kaufmann is the Chairman of the Iowa GOP.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 2023, there are two Europes: the Europe of the museums and the beaches – and the real Europe as lived by its people. And that Europe has changed dramatically in recent decades.  The end of the Cold War collapsed many of the continent's political barriers. European unification brought countries as diverse as Ireland and Bulgaria under one umbrella. And more recently, a boom in migration, especially from the Islamic world, has changed Europe’s demographics and brought a host of opportunities, challenges, and political changes. Today, the war in Ukraine has both created more solidarity among European nations and highlighted their big differences; and it has rattled the foundation of the region’s economy.  On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with Ben Judah, author of “This Is Europe: The Way We Live Now,” about why this history means that you probably need to update your assumptions about Europe; and why it is that many American policymakers simply don’t understand the realities that leaders like Emmanuel Macron, Rishi Sunak, and Giorgia Meloni have to live with.  Some of the reasons why will be familiar to Americans: immigration, crime, and the rise of right-wing populism. But according to Ben’s new book, their implications for Europe are quite different from those here in the United States. And they open a whole tin of worms for the broader notion of the Western alliance. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Ben Judah is a journalist, academic and the author of "This is Europe: The Way We Live Now"Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, the action in the Senate was all about the annual defense authorization – the NDAA. Usually, the argument about what goes into this enormous bill that governs everything the military can and can’t do is a word soup cooked-up by defense nerds.  You may recall things like SDI, the GWOT, and closing GITMO. All controversial in their own day, and all eventually resolved through the historically bipartisan NDAA process.  But this time around, many in Washington are beginning to wonder if a new set of acronyms is fatally imperiling our armed forces. Issues like DEI, CRT, and abortion may be sinking a bill that has never failed to pass in more than 60 years. It’s setting up a dramatic clash between the House and Senate. On one side, a partisan bill loaded with controversial amendments. On the other, a bipartisan one without all the baggage. Meanwhile in the background, a separate drama is still playing out: that of Sen. Tommy Tuberville’s (R-Ala.) beef with Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin over abortion policy.  The combination of these two events has been more than enough to make lawmakers, lobbyists, and service members alike begin to wonder: Is this the year that the NDAA fails? Will this last sacred piece of bipartisanship in Congress succumb to the divisive forces that have sunk many before?  Joining the show to discuss the prognosis for this year’s NDAA and the perils of this stand off is a man who knows what it’s like to write one of these bills. Because he has. Many times before. Arnold Punaro is a former staff director at the Senate Armed Services Committee and a retired two-star general. And if you’re a senator involved in national security issues, he’s probably also the guy you call for advice.  Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza spoke with him about what the big challenge facing the military is — spoiler, it's not abortion policy; how – or if – Congress has perverted its oversight role of the Pentagon; what, if any, of the right’s objections to military “wokeness” are grounded in facts; and if an NDAA will pass this year at all. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Arnold Punaro is CEO of The Punaro Group and a retired Marine Reserve Major General.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Alejandro Mayorkas was tapped to run DHS – the now 20-year-old behemoth with 260,000 employees created in the aftermath of 9/11 – Mayorkas said that he was determined to be the Secretary of Homeland Security, NOT the Secretary of Immigration. How’s that going? Yesterday, Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza sat down with him on the sidelines of the Aspen Security Forum to find out. Mayorkas’s department is charged with preventing foreign and domestic terrorist attacks. It monitors threats from weapons of mass destruction, protects infrastructure and ensures we’re safe from cyber attacks.  What many of DHS’s agencies do have in common is that you often don’t hear much about them unless something really bad has happened. So even if Mayorkas didn’t also oversee immigration, the most fraught of political issues, being DHS secretary – responsible for defending the nation against terrorism, computer hackers, nuclear weapons, and natural disasters – can often be a thankless job.  And despite his best attempts, it is Mayorkas’s management of Border Patrol, ICE, and Immigration Services that has dominated his tenure and made him the GOP’s main target of attack in the Biden Cabinet.  On this episode of Deep Dive, Ryan and Sec. Mayorkas discuss how the terrorism threat has changed over the last two decades, the challenges of confronting domestic extremism, why the end of Title 42 didn’t lead to the border surge many predicted, the future of TSA, the fentanyl crisis, the prospects of impeachment, and how going through the meat grinder of D.C. politics has changed him. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Alejandro Mayorkas is the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Early one morning in April of 2016 I woke up and seriously contemplated the possibility that I would never be able to generate the strength, focus, and courage to get out of bed. The combination of crippling anxiety, chronic pain, muscle atrophy, and the fascinating mix of pharmaceuticals coursing through my body had, I feared, finally broken me.” Those are the words of Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), the ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, on the first page of his new book, Lost and Broken. In his book Smith recounts his deeply personal story of suffering through —  and eventually overcoming — debilitating mental and physical illness. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Smith joins Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza to discuss his difficult journey and some surprising lessons it taught him about the emotional and sometimes dark overtones that are animating American politics. Additionally, Rep. Smith shares some secrets about what’s happening on the Hill right now: whether he thinks this is the year when Congress fails to pass a defense bill, the continuing fallout in the House from the debt limit deal, and whether Kevin McCarthy can rustle-up enough Republican votes to avoid a government shutdown this fall. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Adam Smith is the representative for Washington's 9th district.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This weekend, President Joe Biden is headed to Europe. His first stop: the U.K. Biden is scheduled to meet with both His Royal Highness King Charles, an old acquaintance and fellow head of state; and the Right Honorable Rishi Sunak, Britain’s prime minister and a fellow head of government – who just visited Biden in Washington this past month.  On the agenda for these meetings: climate change, the war in Ukraine, and the “Atlantic Declaration” – that’s the diplomatic term for Biden and Sunak’s push to renew the U.K. and America’s partnership across a host of economic and security issues facing the West.  Joining to talk about these issues as well as Britain and America’s special relationship is Karen Pierce, the British Ambassador to the United States. Pierce is one of the U.K.’s most experienced diplomats, having held an array of senior positions including ambassadorships to the U.N., the WTO, and Afghanistan; as well as directing British policy throughout South Asia, Pakistan, and Afghanistan during some key years of the War on Terror.  On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Pierce tells host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza what Sunak hopes to get out of Biden’s trip to London; how Britain and America’s relationship has changed throughout her many years of service; how the war in Ukraine is driving the two countries closer – and occasionally further apart; who Brits admire the most in our nation’s history; and what her secrets are for dealing with cagey diplomats on the other side of the bargaining table. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Karen Pierce is the British Ambassador to the U.S.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In American politics, there is a small group of leaders who are – to borrow a term from Hollywood – hit makers. Everything they touch seems to turn to gold.  There is perhaps no better example of this in Democratic politics than Rahm Emanuel. For those who need a refresher, Rahm is a former Bill Clinton advisor, turned Illinois Congressman, turned DCCC chair, turned Barack Obama chief of staff, turned mayor of Chicago… and currently, he is Joe Biden’s ambassador to Japan. In his new posting, Rahm has been at the forefront of new multi-lateral agreements between the U.S., Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines; he is agitating for allies to stop what he calls “Chinese economic coercion;” and he has been a key player in a controversial effort to legalize same-sex marriage in Japan.  This week, Rahm joined Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza to talk about his role organizing our allies around Putin and China; how hardnose politics is actually great for diplomacy; and why – even when you’re dealing with the president of the United States – it’s still much better to beg for forgiveness, than to ask for permission. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Rahm Emanuel is the U.S. Ambassador to Japan.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The big debate in Washington this week is about realism versus idealism. It played out first in foreign policy, when Joe Biden hosted Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi for a state dinner. Biden has made big claims about how democratic ideals are at the heart of American foreign policy; but he spent two days lavishing time and attention on Modi, who is persecuting Muslims and cracking down on public dissent from reporters and political opponents.  Biden needs India to be an ally against China and that priority outweighed the instinct to shun Modi for his creeping authoritarianism.  We talk about this debate all the time when it comes to American foreign policy. But sometimes that same debate becomes central to American domestic politics as well.  And across town, just as Modi was wrapping up his joint address to Congress, evangelical conservatives from across the country were gathering at the Washington Hilton to hear from their own flawed partner: Donald Trump. Well actually not just Trump — Mike Pence, Ron DeSantis, Tim Scott, Chris Christie, and every major Republican candidate is scheduled to speak at the Faith & Freedom Coalition’s Road to Majority conference. But, naturally, Trump is what religious conservatives are talking about. After all, he is the dominant frontrunner for the GOP presidential nomination. And he is the group’s keynote speaker at their gala dinner on Saturday night. And he is also the politician about whom two things can be said: One, his personal and public life makes a mockery of the Christian ideals of evangelical voters. And, two, he is the person who has delivered more policy victories for these same voters than any other president.  The questions that evangelicals are debating in Washington this week are whether that deal with Trump was worth it… and whether they should renew the contract. This week’s guest has a lot of thoughts about this. He is the founder and chairman of the Faith & Freedom Coalition, Ralph Reed. Reed was recruited in 1989 by Pat Robertson, the late televangelist, to help run a new organization: the Christian Coalition.  It grew to be a powerful political group that cemented social conservatives as a core constituency of the Republican Party and made issues such as opposition to abortion rights non-negotiable policies in the GOP.  As you will hear in this episode, Ralph Reed is a political junkie. He left the Christian Coalition in 1997 and soon became one of the key strategists for George W. Bush.  And then in Obama’s first term, Reed struck up an unlikely friendship with a guy named Donald Trump. He did for Trump what he does for every presidential candidate who comes calling for his advice: he explained how to win over evangelical voters, who make up about 60 percent of the Republican presidential primary electorate. In his view it worked out pretty well: Evangelicals overwhelmingly backed the thrice-married New York Playboy who famously botched bible verses on the stump. And Trump kept his word when it came to their most important issue: appointing Supreme Court judges who would overturn Roe v. Wade. So what will evangelicals do in the 2024 Republican presidential primary? That is the question that Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza spoke with Reed about in a backroom at the Washington Hilton as his conference attendees filed in. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Ralph Reed is the chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Timothy Parlatore spent over a year working for Donald Trump on a number of legal challenges, including the Department of Justice’s probe into Trump’s role in Jan. 6 and the investigation of all those documents stashed at Mar-a-Lago. Parlatore was inside the secret grand jury room in Washington. He oversaw the search for documents in Bedminster. He coordinated the former president’s response to Jack Smith’s subpoena for the national security files that eventually landed Trump in so much trouble. And then, in May, after a long-running internal fight with one of Trump’s top aides, Parlatore quit.   Since then, you may have seen him on cable TV talking about why he left the Trump team and offering his insights about the case. But he hasn’t sat down for an in-depth interview like the one you’re about to hear.  Parlatore came by Politico’s offices in Arlington and spent the afternoon talking to Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza about why he became a criminal defense attorney in the first place, the moral dilemmas he’s faced representing people who he knew were guilty.  And, most important, what it was like being on the inside of Trump’s legal team as Jack Smith and his prosecutors closed in. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Timothy Parlatore is the founder and Managing Partner of Parlatore Law GroupKara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ben Terris is a feature writer at The Washington Post, where he’s carved out a unique role: reporting on what he calls, “the weirdo beat.” While Ben’s colleagues focus on what’s happening on the main stage in politics, he keeps an eye on the freak show that’s happening just out of sight.  This week, Ben published his much-anticipated book “The Big Break: The Gamblers, Party Animals, and True Believers Trying to Win in Washington While America Loses Its Mind.”  “The Big Break” has a novel argument: that if you want to understand how American politics works in the post-Donald Trump era – then you really, really have to understand Ben’s field of expertise: weirdos. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza joins Ben to discuss the rise and fall of the influential oddballs chronicled in “The Big Break,” and what their stories say about the future of politics. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Ben Terris is a feature reporter covering national politics for The Washington Post.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Rachael Bade joins House Majority Whip Tom Emmer (R-Minn.) and Chief Deputy Whip Guy Reschenthaler (R-Pa.) just hours before final passage of the debt ceiling bill they shepherded through the House. This is the behind the scenes story from inside the Republican whip's office of how Kevin McCarthy's leadership team convinced House Republicans to raise the debt ceiling for two years and embrace his agreement with Joe Biden, which many on the right decried as a betrayal of the base. It's a story of how Emmer and Reschenthaler pulled together a divided and fractious conference, dodging a ballooning effort to oust McCarthy from the gavel, and ultimately putting the ball back in the Democrats' court. Rachael Bade is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Tom Emmer is the House  Majority Whip and the representative for Minnesota's 6th district.Guy Reschenthaler is the House Republican Chief Deputy Whip and the representative for Pennsylvania's 14th district.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, the rumors became reality as Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and South Carolina Senator Tim Scott announced their long-awaited presidential campaigns. The contrast between the two events foreshadowed all of the big questions for next year’s Republican primaries. Tim Scott, who is a favorite among his senate colleagues —  but who is mostly unknown outside of his home state and the Washington, D.C., fundraising circuit — preached optimism and unity while sharing the stage with his mother. Ron DeSantis, on the other hand, did something a little different. He announced his campaign on Twitter Spaces with Elon Musk. But for many, the event’s glitchy start was more memorable than DeSantis’s stern message to fellow Republicans. It was the perfect setup for the choice Republicans will have to make in Iowa, New Hampshire, and beyond: Do they want a president who follows in Ronald Reagan’s footsteps – one who is optimistic and driven by ideas – who shakes hands and kisses babies? Or do they want someone like Trump: a leader who uses the Internet to press the attack on the cultural issues that have divided the country.    Now, Scott and DeSantis join a crowded GOP field that includes former governors Nikki Haley and Asa Hutchinson; entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy; and of course, the dominant frontrunner, Donald Trump. This week on Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks about Scott, DeSantis, and all things 2024 with Jonathan Martin, POLITICO’s Politics Bureau Chief; and co-author of the best-seller, This Will Not Pass: Trump, Biden, and the Battle for America’s Future.  Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the last year, a lot has changed in Washington for progressives like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.). In 2021 and 2022, with Democrats controlling the House, she and her allies could block any piece of legislation if they held together. Their big fights were with moderate Democrats over how many trillions of dollars to spend on President Joe Biden’s agenda.  And they had easy access to the White House with Ron Klain as Biden’s chief of staff. Now they are in the minority and far from the negotiating room where Joe Biden is trying to make a budget deal with Kevin McCarthy to get him to raise the debt ceiling. Their main fight is trying to stop the president from caving to McCarthy on what they view as draconian budget cuts and policies that would weaken the social safety net. And over at the White House, it’s not really clear who they should call anymore.  AOC is keenly aware of these changed circumstances. She’s been carefully watching the debt limit debate play out and she has a clear view of what it’s all about: power, not policy.  In this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Rep. Ocasio-Cortez tells host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza how House progressives can flex their muscles right now; and how she’s learned to use her unique influence to affect legislation, even when she’s not at the table. Finally, she has some advice – and a warning – for Joe Biden as we approach the endgame of the debt limit. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the representative for New York's 14th district. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, after years of criticism from immigration rights activists and many progressive Democrats, President Joe Biden has ended the use of Title 42. That’s the public health law that Donald Trump first used during the pandemic to expel millions of asylum seekers arriving at the U.S.-Mexico border. Biden’s decision has drawn predictable outrage from Republicans. But perhaps more worrisome to the president is the growing list of critics from within the Democratic Party who are concerned that Biden’s border policies could trigger a humanitarian crisis and perhaps an electoral backlash.  Rep. Henry Cuellar is one of those Democrats. And he’s this week’s guest on Playbook Deep Dive. Cuellar knows the issue of immigration better than most of his fellow Democrats. He was born to immigrant farm workers in Laredo, Texas, went to college and law school, and eventually jumped into Texas politics, and then the U.S. Congress, where he’s served since 2005 representing Texas’s 28th Congressional District, which stretches from San Antonio to Laredo and includes 200 miles of the southern border. The left does not like him. He received a lot of attention in the last two election cycles when he was targeted by national progressives and barely survived two primary challenges. One reason for those challenges: immigration, where Cuellar is well-known for being to the right of many of his Democratic colleagues. On the other hand, he voted against the border security bill that House Republicans put on the floor this week. Cuellar is a lonely centrist on an issue that has become much more polarized over the last decade.  And, as he tells Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza, he thinks Joe Biden should join him in the middle and stop taking advice from the left, as the president prepares for the coming aftershocks of his Title 42 decision. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Henry Cuellar is the representative for Texas's 28th district. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you talk to Democratic strategists about the 2024 presidential election, there is a certain type of Republican nominee who they fear: Someone who knows how to speak in the language of inclusion; who can discuss abortion and guns without alienating suburban voters; who stands up to the GOP on some of the most fraught issues of the culture wars; who can argue that he or she has almost as much government experience as Joe Biden himself, but is still younger; who handled the pandemic in their state in a way that avoided some of the most unpopular decisions of both Democrats and Republicans; and who spends a lot of their time explaining to Republicans why they should leave Donald Trump in the past.  Asa Hutchinson — who sounds an awful lot like that imaginary candidate that Democrats fear —  is here on Playbook Deep Dive this week to tell us why you shouldn’t count him out. Hutchinson got his start in politics as a U.S. attorney during the Reagan Revolution, when his home state of Arkansas was still run by Democrats. He served two terms as governor and shortly after stepping down this year, he announced he’s running for president. If there’s one thing that makes him stand out so far, it’s that he’s willing to say things about Trump that other Republicans aren’t. Hutchinson recently wrote that the former President “has led us astray,” “undermined the fabric of our democracy,” and is emblematic of bad leaders who are, “focused only on themselves or on settling scores with political opponents.” In this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host Ryan Lizza speaks with the former Arkansas governor after his first official trip to Iowa. He opens up about why he’s running, how he thinks he can take down Trump, and why his record – which is among the most conservative in America – is full of surprises. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Asa Hutchinson is the former governor of Arkansas and a GOP presidential candidate.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This past week, luminaries from politics, media, and Hollywood came together for the annual White House Correspondents' dinner in Washington. Playbook co-author and Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza joined forces with Major Garrett, CBS News’s Washington correspondent and host of the popular podcast, The Takeout, at the POLITICO-CBS News reception to bring you this very special live show.  The show features guests such as Senator Mark Warner (D-Va.); Asa Hutchinson, the GOP presidential candidate and former Arkansas governor; comedian Roy Wood, Jr., who provided the entertainment at the dinner; and many other big names in the world of politics and media.  This originally aired live on SiriusXM, but it’s just so good that we had to put it out here for all of you to enjoy.  Follow The Takeout with Major Garrett wherever you get your podcasts. You can also listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Visit the The Takeout’s page here:  https://link.chtbl.com/CBSNewsTheTakeout Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week in Washington – more so than anytime in Joe Biden’s presidency – the news has been all about… the news. To start, it’s the weekend of the White House Correspondents Association Dinner. But outside of the brunches and parties, a different type of media intrigue has been dominating politics.  BuzzFeed News, the colossus of yesteryear’s viral reporting and the entity that published the infamous Steele Dossier about Donald Trump, announced that it was shutting down for good. On Monday, Fox News fired Tucker Carlson, their top-rated host. Within an hour, Don Lemon announced he was parting ways with CNN, where he had worked for 17 years.  On Thursday, Vice News, another struggling pioneer of 21st century digital news, became the latest media company to lay off some of its best known reporters.  These are all isolated events with circumstances specific to each newsroom. But in an excellent new book called Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral,  Ben Smith argues that we are indeed at the end of an era in media, but that the next one might be something to look forward to.  That’s a forceful prediction coming from Ben, who was a longtime reporter at POLITICO, the top editor at BuzzFeed News, a New York Times media columnist, and now is the editor-in-chief of Semafor. He’s also this week’s Playbook Deep Dive guest. Ben’s book and this interview with Deep Dive Host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza do their best to answer the questions we all have about why our political culture is so fragmented, and whether there is any hope that we can return to a place where Americans agree on simple things — like facts. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Ben Smith is the editor-in-chief of Semafor.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On May 1, the hotly-anticipated HBO series White House Plumbers will premiere. The 5-episode series takes viewers along on a darkly funny ride with the fumbling ex-spooks and misguided “patriots.” E. Howard Hunt, played by Woody Harrelson and G. Gordon Liddy, played by Justin Theroux. The duo — along with some helpers — use any means necessary to secure the 1972 re-election of Richard Nixon, including breaking into the Democratic National Committee's headquarters at the Watergate Office Building.  Of course instead of saving Nixon, Liddy and Hunt end up destroying his presidency. The show is a warped version of a buddy comedy that explores one of the most relevant issues in politics: what happens when true believers lose their integrity and moral compass in pursuit of their cause. David Mandel, the director of White House Plumbers, is a man who knows more about the intersection of Hollywood and Washington than just about anyone. Mandel has had a storied career as a comedy writer and producer. He’s a veteran of Saturday Night Live, Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm. He went on to lead production of Veep —  one of the funniest and most accurate shows ever made about Washington — for its final three seasons. On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks with Mandel about lessons he’s learned translating Washington for Hollywood, first with Veep and now with White House Plumbers —  and how a certain president elected in between these two shows changed everything about what makes politics funny. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.David Mandel is the director of White House Plumbers. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Florida’s statehouse cleared the way for Gov. Ron DeSantis to sign a six-week abortion ban. The man who shepherded the bill, House Speaker Paul Renner, joins Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza for this episode of Playbook Deep Dive.  You might not know Renner’s name – but you definitely know his work:  A bill to ban surgeries and prescription treatments for transgender minors, which has passed the state Senate and Renner will soon push through the House One of the most comprehensive new school voucher laws in the country Legislation removing books with sexual content from Florida public schools A major tort reform bill, big tax cuts And if he gets around to it this session: a bill aimed at over-turning the 1964 New York Times v. Sullivan decision, the most important First Amendment ruling of the last century All of this is aimed at Renner’s other project: helping Gov. Ron DeSantis build a record of accomplishments in Florida on which he can base his presidential campaign.  While Republicans have created a legislative assembly line that is spitting out laws to change seemingly every aspect of life in Florida, a big question suddenly hangs over their project:  Are they building a record of accomplishments that can launch the DeSantis rocket to the White House? Or are they weighing down the governor with so much right-wing baggage that he crashes upon liftoff? Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Paul Renner is the speaker of the Florida House of Representatives.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The 2024 Republican presidential primary is off to a bit of a slow start. Donald Trump and former governors Nikki Haley and Asa Hutchinson have entered the race, but other likely candidates, such as Ron DeSantis and Mike Pence, are still sitting on the sidelines. Almost every Republican senator who flirted with the idea seems likely to pass, with the notable exception of Tim Scott, who’s been making stops in Iowa and New Hampshire. Into this vacuum has come Vivek Ramaswamy, who stated his intentions in a Wall Street Journal op-ed. He declared that he was running to forge “an inspiring national identity that dilutes the woke agenda to irrelevance.” In a subsequent interview with POLITICO’s Daniel Lippman, Vivek added that, “The GOP has a historic opportunity to answer the question of what it means to be an American.”  You probably don’t know much about Vivek Ramaswamy – he’s a young entrepreneur from Ohio who’s never run for anything. But there are a few reasons to keep an eye on him:  He says he’s willing to spend millions of dollars of an estimated half-billion dollar fortune on the race  He’s a regular presence on the Fox News Channel, which is the top information source for Republican primary voters And he seems to be putting together a serious campaign made up of political pros Vivek swears he has a plan to break out of the single digits and take down Donald Trump. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza joins Vivek at the restaurant Art & Soul to learn whether he is completely delusional —  or whether he just might be onto something. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Vivek Ramaswamy is a biotech entrepreneur and Republican presidential contender. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Playbook Deep Dive host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza gathers three of the best journalists in the POLITICO’s newsroom to break down the immediate questions of what Trump's indictment means. Joining him is Jonathan Martin, POLITICO’s Politics Bureau Chief; Meridith McGraw, who covers Trump for POLITICO; and Erica Orden, who is new to POLITICO and is one of the best legal reporters out there. All three have been breaking news on this story – and they’re on deadline. These are their thoughts about what has led to this moment and what will occur because of it. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Erica Orden is a legal reporter for POLITICO.Meridith McGraw is a national political correspondent for POLITICO.Jonathan Martin is politics bureau chief for POLITICO.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lanny Davis long ago established himself as the go-to operative in Washington when you’re in the middle of a PR crisis.  He was famously the public face defending Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal in 1998. But today, 25 years later, he’s on the other side of a presidential sex scandal representing Michael Cohen, Trump’s longtime lawyer and self-described “fixer,” who went to jail for a number of offenses, including his role in paying Stormy Daniels $130,000 in exchange for her not telling the media her account of an alleged affair with Donald Trump.  Cohen is now a central witness in the Manhattan DA’s case against Trump, one that could send the former president to jail. It’s a case that has died and been resurrected so many times that prosecutors have nicknamed it the “zombie” case. And a major obstacle that prosecutors face is whether or not jurors will believe that Cohen, who lied for Trump for over a decade, is telling the truth.  On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza catches up with Davis at his office in Washington, D.C., to hear the story of how the Trump “zombie” case came back from the dead and why he insists jurors should believe his client. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Lanny Davis is the lawyer and spokesperson for former Trump fixer Michael Cohen.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Thursday, the Senate began to re-evaluate one of the most controversial episodes in American history: the Iraq war.  After a generation of use and abuse, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is calling a vote to repeal the Iraq AUMF, or authorization for the use of military force, which has been a key underpinning for America’s so-called “forever wars” in the Middle East. But Stephen Hadley, the man who was the architect of many of the national security policies that the Iraq AUMF enabled, has something to say before Congress votes. Hadley was President George W. Bush’s national security advisor from 2005 to 2009 and was Dick Cheney’s guy at the negotiating table with Russia during the George H.W. Bush administration. Now, he has just published a book called Hand-Off: The Foreign Policy George W. Bush Passed to Barack Obama that chronicles 20 years of war and politics in America.  On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza speaks with the former Bush adviser about what we stand to lose if Congress is sloppy about repealing the Iraq war AUMF, what Bush got right and wrong on China, how Joe Biden’s foreign policy echoes Bush’s Freedom Agenda, and how President Biden can learn from Bush’s successes and failures dealing with Vladimir Putin. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Stephen Hadley is the former National Security Advisor for President George W. Bush.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Last November, when the artificial intelligence platform ChatGPT launched, an old science fiction question suddenly became very real: How long until the machines are smarter than the humans?  It marked the beginning of a new era in technology – one that has enormous implications for the economy and the nation’s politics. On the Hill, members of Congress suddenly needed answers about the coming disruption. The expert they turned to for those was a video game developer from Southern California, Rep. Jay Obernolte (R-Calif.). Obernolte is, according to his peers, the guy you need to know on AI. He has a masters in the field and owns a very successful video game company. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, he tells Playbook’s Ryan Lizza the truth about this powerful new technology and what it means to Washington, D.C.; from AI’s regulatory forecast to what – if anything – Congress can do to soften a potential white collar job apocalypse that its widespread adoption might bring. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Rep. Jay Obernolte is the congressman for California's 23rd district.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The war in Ukraine is just over one year old. There is widespread talk of a major spring offensive from both sides. War in Europe, once unthinkable, is now the new normal. But for one nation on Russia’s northern border, this feels like deja vu. Like Ukraine, Finland knows what it’s like to share a long border with Russia. The Finns have had Vladimir Putin as a neighbor, and they’ve been performing the same delicate dance of decoupling under his very watchful eye. Before his posting to Washington, Mikko Hautala was Finland’s ambassador to Russia, where he met Vladimir Putin more times than he can count. Hautala occupied his post in Moscow during the critical years following Putin’s first invasion of Ukraine.  Since the war began, he’s become well known as the person to talk to to understand Putin, Russia and the conflict in Ukraine.  On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host Ryan Lizza talks with Hautala about what Americans don’t understand about the Russian leader, the implications of the growing alliance between China and Russia, Finland’s accession to NATO, and why he believes the West needs to massively ramp up its industrial capability if it wants Ukraine to survive. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Mikko Hautala is Finland's ambassador to the U.S.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Until last month, Anthony Coley was Director of Public Affairs at the Justice Department and a Senior Adviser to Attorney General Merrick Garland.  Coley was in the middle of some of the most extraordinary episodes at DOJ over the last two years:  The appointment of two special counsels investigating one current and one former president. Responding to the drama around the investigation of the president’s son.  Taking incoming from right-wing pundits saying Garland was protecting President Biden and left-wing pundits saying the attorney general was protecting former president Trump.  And occasionally grappling with perhaps the most difficult dilemma that any government official faces: what do you do when you disagree with the boss? In his first interview since leaving Merrick Garland’s side, Coley joins Playbook Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza from his home on Capitol Hill to discuss how the Justice Department separates law from politics, why two special counsels might just take the pressure off Garland, and much, much more. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Anthony Coley is the former director of public affairs at the Department of JusticeAfra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nikki Haley, the former governor of South Carolina, and President Donald Trump’s ambassador to the United Nations, is running for president. But not everyone on the right is impressed. In a brutal Valentine’s Day editorial, The Wall Street Journal said that there is “no clear rationale for her candidacy.” Over at The New York Times, the paper assembled 10 pundits to assess Haley’s candidacy, and the majority opinion was that she shouldn’t be taken very seriously.  On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Rob Godfrey, a senior aide and spokesman for Haley when she was governor, and a longtime ally to her successor, Henry McMaster, shares why the critics may be wrong. Godfrey discusses Haley’s career of defying expectations, her record as governor, South Carolina’s uniquely influential role in American politics, and invites host Ryan Lizza to come visit. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Rob Godfrey is the former senior aide to Nikki Haley. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Washington, there is now a bipartisan consensus around being tough on China. This was happening even before the Chinese sent a spy balloon drifting across the United States. Last month, by a vote of 365-65, the House created a new “Select Committee on Strategic Competition between the United States and the Chinese Communist Party.” And with China hawks now dominating the thinking of both parties when it comes to Sino-U.S. relations, Deep Dive host Ryan Lizza decided to check in with Max Baucus, who is one of the leading voices warning that the hawks have things dangerously wrong.  Baucus was the U.S. ambassador to China from 2014 to 2017. Before that he was, depending on the year, the chairman or ranking member of the very powerful Senate Finance Committee. And in this fascinating interview, he’s surprisingly critical of Republicans and Democrats alike for muddling the U.S. relationship with China in order to score political points at home. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Max Baucus is the former U.S. Ambassador to China. Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After losing both chambers of Congress during Trump’s presidency and after waging a disappointing campaign to recapture them in 2022, the Republican Party is having a lot of intra-party feuds. This week, the post-election search for new leadership moved to the Republican National Committee. Right now, there’s no agreed-upon leader of the party, so like the recent battles in the Senate and the House, the RNC election has turned into a fight to define the GOP’s future. And once again, Donald Trump is at the center of the debate. Playbook co-author Rachael Bade flew to Orange County, California, to watch the fireworks at the RNC’s winter meeting, where the three-time incumbent chair Ronna McDaniel faced a challenge from conservative lawyer Harmeet Dhillon. To understand what this fight is all about, Rachael had breakfast with Bill Palatucci, a longtime party member who is also a close ally of Chris Christie’s and a loud critic of Donald Trump. In this week’s episode, Palatucci explains how the Dhillon-McDaniel contest isn’t just about the RNC chairmanship – it's about who will lead the Republican Party into 2024 — and beyond — and why the GOP could languish for a very long time depending on the outcome. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Bill Palatucci is an RNC national committee man for New Jersey.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do you do when you are one of the guardians of your state’s most precious political and cultural institution — the very thing that defines New Hampshire — and the president you love and the party you’ve served your whole life, tells you to destroy it? To find out, we spoke to Ray Buckley. Buckley has served as the chairman of the New Hampshire Democratic Party since 2007 and he was involved in every New Hampshire presidential primary campaign since he was an organizer for Jimmy Carter. A big part of his job is protecting the status of the New Hampshire primary, which by state law is required to be the first in the nation. Any Democrat who wants to be president makes a point of becoming Ray Buckley’s friend. When Buckley got a call in December from Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, the worst part was that it was Joe Biden who had screwed him. Biden had decided to end New Hampshire’s decades-long reign by hosting the first presidential primary — at least for the Democrats. In its place: South Carolina, the state that resurrected Biden’s candidacy in 2020. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza speaks to Buckley about New Hampshire’s fight to preserve their first-in-the-nation primary. Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.Ray Buckley is the chair of the New Hampshire Democratic Party.Afra Abdullah is an associate producer for POLITICO audio.Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio.Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.Brook Hayes is a senior editor for POLITICO audio.Jenny Ament is the executive producer for POLITICO audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In off-the-record conversations and private emails, AFL-CIO political director Michael Podhorzer argued that the pundits focusing exclusively on the fundamentals of the race — Biden’s approval rating and the dismal economic indicators — were missing the bigger picture. Yes, presidents usually lose an average of some two dozen House seats in similar circumstances, but that wasn’t the whole story. While many analysts argued that inflation would be more important than the diffuse issue of democracy, Podhorzer said that was myopic. He was much more right than wrong. Podhorzer has now left the AFL-CIO after 25 years and is able to speak freely. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host Ryan Lizza sits down with him in his kitchen for his first wide-ranging interview. They talk about what everyone got wrong about 2022, his critiques of the media’s coverage of the right, his ongoing battles with the so-called popularists in the Democratic Party, and why Podhorzer already thinks the presidential election of 2024 is headed for a dangerous endgame. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In late 2014, Rep. John Fleming (R-La.) was traveling back to Louisiana with his wife when he had an idea: a plan to empower arch-conservatives to push back against their Leadership, led by then-Speaker of the House John Boehner. Soon after, he and eight Republican colleagues founded the House Freedom Caucus – the same group that is determined to deny Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Ca.) the speaker’s gavel. If you want to understand the roots of this week’s far-right rebellion, then you have to understand the roots of the House Freedom Caucus. And while not every member of the HFC opposes McCarthy – and not every opponent is a member of the HFC – most of them are. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, former Rep. John Fleming (R-La.), a Freedom Caucus Founder, unspools something that we could all use right now to understand the current crisis and what it portends for the future of Republican politics: an unauthorized history of the House Freedom Caucus. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rep. Bob Good (R-Va.) and his allies are trying to end Kevin McCarthy’s reign as leader of the House Republicans. Good is one of five Republicans in the far-right Freedom Caucus vowing to block McCarthy’s path to the 218 votes needed to become Speaker of the House. The two have a history. In 2020, Good was running for Congress to represent Virginia’s 5th Congressional District. Incidentally, also home to the race between James Madison and James Monroe to be the district’s first representative in Congress. Madison won. While Good was running for Congress, Kevin McCarthy tried to consolidate power in the Republican House conference on his way to becoming Speaker. During his campaign, Good knocked out one of McCarthy’s loyal member’s at the GOP nominating convention. At a private meeting recently, Good and McCarthy had a heated exchange about events at the time. On this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, Playbook co-author Rachael Bade went to the Hill to meet Good at his office and dig for details on the history of his relationship with McCarthy and whom Good and his allies intended to support for Speaker instead. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Department of Energy announced a breakthrough in the decades-long quest to recreate on Earth the process that powers the Sun: nuclear fusion. To simplify slightly, scientists at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California recently fired a bunch of lasers at a piece of hydrogen. The lasers used 2.05 megajoules of energy to hit the hydrogen. The resulting reaction produced 3 megajoules of energy. For the first time in the history of fusion research, scientists achieved ignition — more energy was produced by the reaction than was used to create it. Here in Washington, and the world of politics, no elected official was as excited about these results as Rep. Don Beyer (D-Va.). Beyer is the former lieutenant governor of Virginia and was an ambassador in the Obama administration. A few years ago, Beyer became consumed with the promise of fusion. How it could become a cheap and plentiful alternative to fossil fuels. How it could solve the climate crisis. In this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host Ryan Lizza joins Congressman Beyer to explore the policy and politics of this big scientific breakthrough. Is it the turning point we’ve been promised for decades, or will it once again lead to the same dashed expectations that has long-characterized the history of fusion research? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Gov. Chris Sununu was recently re-elected to his fourth term in office. The Republican governor has been positioning himself for the 2024 presidential primaries for a while now.  Before Election Day, there were a lot of reasons to be skeptical about his chances. He’s a New England moderate in the party of MAGA. He endorsed DONALD TRUMP twice, but he’s also been a stinging critic. And he’s pro-choice, which might be seen as a non-starter in a GOP primary. Trump’s recent decline has emboldened his potential competitors. The underwhelming results for Republicans in the 2022 midterms have led to an outbreak of interest on the right in electability.  Now Sununu is trying to define himself against not just Trump, but many of the right’s obsessions that he sees as political losers. On this week’s episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza went to the statehouse in Concord, NH, where Sununu was keen to discuss 2024 presidential primary politics in a way that he hasn’t recently.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices