Heroes & Humans of Football

Megan Rapinoe is one of soccer’s most talented players, yet has an influence and legacy that extends far beyond the pitch. How did one American sportswoman become such a central figure in conversations about homophobia, feminism, and racism?  This episode tracks Rapinoe’s life, from growing up in a relatively poor working-class background to becoming the GOAT of women’s soccer. Mehreen and Simon examine how witnessing severe drug abuse and her family upbringing shaped her understanding of privilege and injustice. This episode unpicks the polarising views of Megan, which are often at the centre of wider cultural wars. The episode discusses Rapinoe being the first top soccer player to come out (which was actually not too controversial), to being one of the first sportspeople to take the knee in 2016 (which was). On one hand, Rapinoe is hated by president Donald Trump (“Woke equals failure”) and was once called the “most annoying sportsperson ever” by Piers Morgan. On the other hand, she is celebrated as a figure with a strong moral compass – standing up for injustices, unfair pay, and archaic power structures. Is Rapinoe the new model for the next generation of sports stars? Or should politics be kept off the pitch?  Time stamps: 0:36: Introduction  4:43: A child of Trump’s America  9:45: A growing childhood interest in soccer 11:42: Recognising privilege and witnessing fentanyl addiction  17:17: College scholarship and move to Oregon 20:25: Discovering her sexuality 25:59: A poorly-paid pro, viral moments, and coming out 29:45: Intersectionality, homophobia, and equal pay 33:23: Racism and taking the knee in 2016  38:39: Trump vs. Rapinoe (with a father that votes for him) 44:27: Class action lawsuit for equal pay 47:10: Rapinoe’s legacy  Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No footballer in history has had a career at the top for as long as Cristiano Ronaldo. Nearing his 40th birthday, when will it be time for Ronaldo to finally retire? And will he bow out gracefully—or cry? This is the second and final episode on Cristiano Ronaldo. Simon and Mehreen track Ronaldo’s life from 2009 onwards, detailing his transition to family man, his atmospheric rise on social media, and his footballing career after Manchester United. This episode covers Ronaldo’s rivalry with Messi, his fear of decline and irrelevancy, and his dedication to football at every stage—whether it’s the Euros or in the Saudi league. Is it because of Ronaldo that football has reached a fetishisation of high performance? This is the finale of the highest-paid athlete on earth who rose from nothing—a person who embodies hustle culture but whose self importance is so grandiose one can’t help but mock it. Time stamps: 0:36: Ronaldo joins Real Madrid 5:05: Rivalry with Messi 9:11: Perfect life, perfect child, perfect wife? 17:01: Global icon and social media superstar 22:41: Euro 2016 29:13: Manchester United and Juventus 34:28: Humiliation and personal tragedy 37:55: Joining the Saudi pro league 41:36: Decline in the Portuguese national team 44:11: GOAT status or pipped to the post? 49:17: The Muslim conspiracy and ongoing legacy Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Vain, disciplined, consistent: Cristiano Ronaldo is a football legend like no other. How did this hyper-athletic, prone-to-cry Portuguese player become such a dominant force—not only in football but on the world stage? This episode is the first of two on the legendary football player and covers Ronaldo’s early life. The episode chronicles Ronaldo’s childhood, growing up as an unwanted child in relative poverty in Madeira, and his move to the Portuguese mainland, where he became determined to work harder, better, and faster than everyone else. Simon and Mehreen paint a picture of Ronaldo’s ascent to international fame and superstardom, giving insight into his relationship with Alex Ferguson and Ronaldo’s tendency to always be an individual rather than a team player. This is the first part of a story of the man who takes himself so seriously he has become a meme—and how his egocentric, strict discipline and routine helped to propel him to the top. *Trigger warning: Mentions of sexual assault allegations, marked in the timestamps* Time stamps: 0:36: Introduction and stats 4:01: Growing up in poverty in Madeira 9:22: Arrival to the mainland and showing fierce discipline 15:13: Youth career and rising competition for fame 20:40: Arrival at Manchester United  26:36: UEFA 2004 and a teenager’s determination for greatness 30:20: Controversies and acclaim at Manchester United  39:00: Ronaldo’s first Ballon D’Or (but not the last) 46:22: Alex Ferguson’s infantilisation of Ronaldo at Manchester United 50:25: Sexual assault allegations in Las Vegas *TW: contains mentions of alleged sexual violence that some listeners may find upsetting* 56:12: Wrap up and look towards part two Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Paul Labile Pogba is, according to host Simon, one of the most gifted players of all time. How did an international, record-breaking superstar become embroiled in a mess of conspiracy, extortion and doping bans? And will we see a comeback for Pogba in 2025? This episode covers Pogba’s life and career, from growing up in France and flying under the radar at Manchester United to a rise to dominance at Juventus and becoming the ‘Churchillian leader’ of the French National Team.  An incredibly gifted player whose play style can dominate all parts of the pitch, Simon and Mehreen also cover the dark downfall of Pogba’s late 20s. In Shakespearean fashion, Pogba's brother betrayed him (including a bizarre West African witch doctor story), only for him to fail a doping test after his comeback. Will one of football’s most interesting main characters be able to take the centre stage ever again? Returning to football aged 32, will Pogba see a redemption, or is it all over for this tragic hero? And what hairstyle will we see next? Time stamps: 0:36: Introduction and stats 3:31: Growing up and finding religion 9:02: Underestimated at Manchester United (and fights with Ferguson) 14:22: Success at Juventus 20:20: Dreams of total dominance 25:58: A leader is born 31:20: Racism and the ‘Karen’ of football 36:39: Complacency at Manchester United 39:09: Betrayal by his brother 46:28: The witch doctor conspiracy 40:28: Doping ban  52:08: Pogba’s legacy and future Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

By his late-20s, superstar footballer Maradona had it all: copious wealth and record-breaking transfer fees, a rockstar lifestyle, and a glittering presence at the World Cup. So what soured? This is the tragic tale of Diego Maradona, from his late 20s until his death in 2020 at just 60 years old. This is the story of Maradona’s decades-long decline, from being (briefly) hated in Italy and failing drug tests on the international stage to unsuccessful tenures as a football manager. Simon and Mehreen chronicle Maradona’s later years, including sought-after peace in the United Arab Emirates and constant returns to his country of Argentina. They reflect on Maradona’s legacy among the greats, and Simon gives his own insights into meeting Maradona—the polite man who often seemed a ‘performing seal’. Above all, this episode covers Maradona’s intrinsic links to Argentina—the country that both revered and celebrated him but may also have been the cause of his demise. The episode paints a picture of Maradona as a resistance hero, a victim of racism, and a person who lived under the pressures of both extreme fame and famine. This is the second part of a two-part podcast. Listen to ‘Maradona: From the slum to world champion’ before this one.  Time stamps: 1:44: The Napoli ‘cult’ starts to sour 6:57: The most hated man in Italy (briefly) 9:07: World Cups and failed drug tests 16:54: Simon meets Maradona 20:58: The ‘little man’ worldview of Argentinian politics and race 30:41: Maradona becomes the Argentine football manager 36:42: Move to the UAE—peace at last 43:25: Back in Argentina, and fatal heart attack 49:09: Maradona’s legacy Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Only a few people can say they carry the weight of a nation on their shoulders – and football superstar Diego Maradona was one of them. This episode, the first of a two-part series, covers the ‘glory’ years of Diego Maradona, the pocket rocket who became the face of Argentina and Argentinian football.  Named as one of the greatest players in the history of sport, this episode covers Maradona’s younger years—from rising success after growing up in the slums of Argentina, to stints at Barcelona, success at Napoli, and World Cup glories (and controversies). In this episode, Mehreen and Simon also cover the dark side of Maradona—from routine drug taker and serial womaniser to mafia run-ins, military coups in Argentina, and the imprisoning effect of global fame. What is the real story behind ‘el pibe de oro’ (the golden boy)? Timestamps: 00:36: Introduction and career statistics 04:58: Growing up poor and ostracised in Argentina 12:06: Pro debut and lift from poverty 16:18: The cage of global fame and war in the Falklands 21:39: Drugs, drinking, and stardom 26:14: Napoli comes calling 29:45: Maradona and the mafia 34:52: The 1986 world cup and the ‘hand of god’ goal 50:23: The symbolic defeat of the imperial master (England) 56:19: Private life gets complicated Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special bonus episode, Simon and Mehreen pay tribute to the legendary Dutch footballer Johan Neeskens, who passed away suddenly at the age of 73. They reflect on his footballing career, starting from his humble beginnings in post-war Netherlands to becoming a key player in Ajax’s dominant European team of the 1970s and a cult figure at FC Barcelona. Johan Neeskens was known as the ultimate "hard man" on the pitch, with a football style rooted in toughness, brutal tackles, and the ability to slide in for a tackle like no one else. Despite his rough nature on the field, Neeskens was beloved for his humility and the passion he brought to every match. In this episode, Simon shares personal memories of Neeskens and highlights the emotional impact of his passing on the football world. This episode captures the duality of Johan Neeskens: the fighter on the field and the humble coach who spent his later years giving back to underprivileged children in refugee camps around the world. Timestamps: 00:36: Welcome and introduction 03:14: How Johan Neeskens’ death resonated across the football community 06:21: Johan Neeskens’ rough childhood and early career struggles 10:45: The rise of Johan Neeskens at Ajax and his defining role in total football 15:32: World Cup 1974 – Sliding into legend with a goal against Brazil 19:18: Neeskens’ move to FC Barcelona and the friendship with Johan Cruyff 23:42: Neeskens’ post-playing career and the heart-warming coaching roles with kids 27:48: His sudden death while on a coaching trip in Algeria 34:00: A legacy of humility, toughness, and lasting impact on the world of football Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates: heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Argentine football manager Pochettino has always been the type to fly under the radar – both as a player and a coach. Is it his time for the spotlight by bringing the US men’s team to glory? In this episode, Simon and Mehreen cover nice guy Pochettino’s life, from growing up on a farm in Argentina to a football career in France—where he’s more motivated by the food and wine of Bordeaux than the club itself. They cover his managerial career, and the story of a Spanish speaker who managed teams in England and France, yet could never communicate to his players except through translators. How, despite this, did he become arguably one of Tottenham Hotspurs most successful managers? This episode covers a deeply spiritual man and ‘aura reader’ who rises to the heights of football (but never the pinnacle) by being a family-orientated nice guy—in stark contrast to other authoritarian, manipulative football managers. Timestamps: 00:36: Introduction 3:07: First thoughts and career statistics 5:45: Growing up in rural Argentina 10:51: Scouting by Bielsa and a weird knock on the door at 2am… 17:31: A good-but-forgettable footballing career—the ultimate footballer NPC 27:53: Football’s good, but Pochettino’s about the food and wine (playing in Paris and Bordeaux) 34:33: Pochettino’s spiritualism. Simon’s not a fan. 43:09: Move to Southampton, with no knowledge of English 50:35: Non-verbal communication and call to Spurs 58:36: Rise and fall at Tottenham Hotspur 1:04:31: Move to Paris Saint Germain and a hollow victory 1:08:30: Chelsea comes calling 1:10:57: Move to the US men’s team – what will happen? Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Alex Ferguson spent 26 seasons as the coach of Manchester United – winning more trophies and accolades than any other manager in the history of football (although Pep may well beat that soon…).  Part 1, the making of Alex Ferguson, tracked the Scotsman’s early life and career. This sequel episode concentrates on how Ferguson helped lead Manchester United to international fame and dominance – gaining respect and recognition from world leaders along the way. In this episode, Mehreen and Simon cover Ferguson’s career and coaching style through the 90s to his retirement in 2013. They touch on his style of coaching on players such as Eric Cantona, his influence over the Class of ‘92 – including Ryan Giggs and David Beckham – up to managing Cristiano Ronaldo. This episode focuses on Ferguson’s contradictory nature – from his authoritarian and domineering nature that would be a nightmare for any HR department, to the popular manager that attracted respect and admiration from people across all walks of life. This is the second episode of a two-part series. Make sure to listen to ‘The making of Alex Ferguson’ before this one. Time stamps: 00:32: Pick-up from last episode – stats, scouting, and play style 08:58: A father figure and matching coaching style to fit the player (Cantona and the class of ‘92) 14:19: Managing the ‘night and day’ personality of Ryan Giggs 21:04: Ruthlessness, egomania, and ways to instill fear in players 26:18: Money and empathy in the era of hyper-rich football 35:00: ‘Fergie time’ and putting the pressure on extra time 42:16: Signing Cristiano Ronaldo and scouting new talent 46:10: Nearing retirement age but not ready to give up 54:51: Last blaze of glory and retirement 59:31: Working with Manchester United after retirement 1:01:49: Brain haemorrhage and influencing from the sidelines 1:07:49: Legacy of a brutal, almost political, figure 1:16:47: Applying the Ferguson leadership style to other industries Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Alex Ferguson, the omnipotent, omnipresent orator, is widely regarded as one of the greatest football managers of all time. This episode tracks Ferguson’s early life and career, showcasing an intricate backstory marred by violence, conviviality, and a quest for greatness.  Mehreen and Simon chronicle Ferguson’s early life, from growing up in working-class Glasgow in the 1940s and part-time pub landlord to playing ‘international’ football, and a managerial career (and firing) in Scottish clubs in the 1970s. What attracted Manchester United to this angry Scotsman who took everything so seriously? How did Ferguson build his role as a ‘do-all’ manager that will say hello to the footballers and cleaners alike, and sit on the phone to fan club presidents for hours? This episode is part of a two-part series on Alex Ferguson, and is defined by comradeship, collectivism, and communication. Look out for the sequel, ‘The reign of Alex Ferguson’, which tracks Ferguson’s longtime success at Manchester United. Time stamps:  00:45: Introduction 06:47: Growing up working class in Glasgow  16:23: Violence as a lasting influence 26:17: Welcome to H&H’s new AI friend… 28:40: Career as an ‘international’ footballer and almost-emigration to Canada 34:12: A record £60,000 transfer and move to coaching 39:33: Figuring out his coaching style in Scottish clubs 46:58: Anger, alcoholics, and temperance 51:14: Religious divisions and sacking from St Mirren 56:45: Move to coaching Aberdeen  1:03:42: Assistant Manager of Scotland and the death of Jock Stein  1:07:06: On Manchester United’s radar 1:12:53: Early coaching at Manchester United 1:18:57: The angry lunatic vs. the people person at Manchester United 1:25:09: Everything starts to turn around…  Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 2010, the footballing community was shouting about corruption. FIFA had just awarded the 2018 World Cup to Russia and the 2022 World Cup to Qatar. Something didn’t sound quite right… In this groundbreaking episode, Simon and Mehreen cover not only the life and corruption of former FIFA President Sepp Blatter, but also paint a picture of the geopolitical changes in global football and the rising power shifts from the West to the East. The podcast features clips from an exclusive interview with Sepp Blatter himself, who candidly reveals details of his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, meetings with Qatar and French President Nicholas Sarkozy, and FIFA officials’ roles in the Qatari corruption scandal. This is a story of power, money, and corruption—akin to a mafia movie or Hollywood biopic. You won’t want to miss it. Time stamps: 00:26: Introduction 03:54: Growing up in Switzerland 08:02: Coca Cola gets Blatter into FIFA 13:32: From bureaucrat to the biggest job at FIFA 19:57: Turning a blind eye or encouraging corruption? 24:58: Simon’s run-in with Blatter (and missing out on a spa day) 34:49: Qatari official meets the French President 37:59: Russia and Qatar win the World Cup bid 45:04: Chuck Blazer blows the whistle 49:37: A farcical election and questions of conviction 57:36: A lonely 80s of court cases, irrelevance, and attempt to stop the Ukraine War 01:00:22: What is Sepp Blatter’s legacy? Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Defensive midfielder N’Golo Kanté has left a huge legacy on football, yet hardly anything is known about him. How did this humble, fame-shy footballer become so beloved by barely saying a single world? In this episode, Simon and Mehreen cover the reclusive Kanté, from poor beginnings in the Paris banlieues to bringing underdog Leicester to shock victory in 2016. They cover his rise to worldwide recognition and uncomfortable relationship with fame as he sees further success at Chelsea and for the French national team. Together, they piece together an intricate picture of the human behind the hero of football. They cover stories of the well-meaning Kanté, who had never been to a birthday party until his 20s, drives a Mini Cooper, doesn’t want to be paid via offshore tax havens, and struggles with the concept of hiring a cleaner. But of course, there’s a more unfortunate side to being the most genuine person in league football – a side that leads to Kanté being held at gunpoint thanks to advantageous agents, and business decisions that seem slightly out of character. This is the story of how the zippy ‘vacuum cleaner’ who hoovers up the midfield became one of the universally-liked men in football.  Time stamps: 00:40: Introduction to N’Golo Kanté (NG) 03:59: Growing up in Paris  07:20: Beginnings in third division French football 10:01: Maturing on and off the pitch at Caen 15:00: Arrival and success at Leicester 20:35: Move to Chelsea and the big leagues 29:00: France win the World Cup 34:35: A ‘vacuum cleaner’ on the pitch and discomfort at recognition 40:13: Surprise comeback at Al-Ittihad 45:15: What if Kanté hadn’t been a footballer? For the 2024/25 Fantasy Premier League, why don't you join my mini-league "Heroes & Humans Of Football"? Joining the league couldn't be easier. Simply use the link below and you'll be added automatically after you've entered the game. https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/l7y2et League Code: l7y2et Looking forward to playing against you this season! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Charismatic and polarising football coach José Mourinho always has one single goal for his teams: to win, no matter what. It’s this mentality that led him to awards, accolades, and admiration. So what happens when the winner stops winning?  This second and final episode on José Mourinho chronicles his fall from grace in the 2010s. Simon and Mehreen cover his arrival at Real Madrid in 2010 to joining Turkish football club Fenerbahçe in 2024—and how Mourinho turns toxic when he’s no longer at his peak winning streak.  Simon and Mehreen cover this new, more uncomfortable era for Mourinho—a time when aggressive coaching styles dominate, and awareness of men’s mental health becomes more mainstream. How does Mourinho adapt (or not adapt) during his tenures at Chelsea, Manchester United, and Tottenham Hotspur?  And is it really over for the notorious media star, love bomber, and genius strategist, or are we now entering Mourinho’s post-Roma redemption era? Listen to find out.  This is a two-parter; listen to our first episode on the rise of José Mourinho before this one. Time stamps: 00:36: Welcome back 04:37: Arrival at Real Madrid 09:30: Spurring on the Real Madrid-Barça rivalry  14:45: An emotional loss (ft. two emotional Portuguese men) 18:11: The end of the Real Madrid ‘revenge tour’ 19:24: Return to Chelsea and love bombing 27:43: Downfall at Chelsea, and the Justin Bieber incident 33:50: Mourinho struggles at Manchester United 40:33: Mourinho’s Manchester United gets left behind 44:35: An ill-fated tenure at Tottenham Hotspur 48:10: A hero’s welcome at Roma (and the start of redemption?) 50:04: Chasing dopamine at Fenerbahçe and Turkish football 53:40: Mourinho’s future and legacy  Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jose Mourinho is the arrogant and charismatic cult figure who divides opinions on the pitch and in the press room. Is he the genius strategist and saviour of failing clubs or just a toxic coach with main character syndrome?  This episode covers the rise of Mourinho, from his early beginnings in Portugal and Barcelona, to his time coaching Chelsea and Inter Milan. Simon and Mehreen analyse Mourinho’s rise to football supremacy with stories that even mega-fans (and mega-haters) may not have heard before. In the episode, Simon and Mehreen share their tongue-in-cheek, in-depth analysis of Mourinho—as a love bomber and a ‘f***boy’, Mourinho’s problematic takes, and how he has been able to use his intelligence, charisma, and good looks for both good and toxic purposes.  This is a two-parter; look out for the next episode on the fall of Jose Mourinho.  Time stamps: 00:30: Rise, fall, and redemption (?) 4:00: Growing up in a rapidly-changing Portugal 9:40: Rise of the intellectual and start at Barcelona 16:56: Frustration to first big break 21:01: Spotting weaknesses in his opponents 25:35: Mourinho - the handsome, the charismatic 28:53: Becoming the main character – Porto success to Abramovich knocking 35:34: Chelsea beginnings and rise of the media manipulator 43:25: Mourinho “the psychic” 44:43: Problematic takes on African players 47:12: Mourinho the love bomber 50:38: Chelsea becomes toxic 57:51: Chelsea sacking and next big move 1:03:04: Saviour of Inter Milan 1:08:26: Heading for Madrid Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sven-Göran Eriksson, former England and Lazio manager, has died at the age of 76. In this tribute episode, Mehreen and Simon discuss the colourful life and career of the small-town Swede who shook up English football as the country's first foreign national team coach and electrified the British tabloids at the height of media intrusion into the private lives of celebrities.  Mehreen and Simon are joined by Olof Lundh, Swedish sports journalist, on how Sven's career went from managing part-time players with Gothenburg in the '80 and ended in ignominy after an elaborate fraud involving the ghost owners of Notts County and a trip to North Korea. He was a perennial nearly-ran with England's "golden generation" of footballers, was duped by a "fake sheikh", and led a financially-doped Lazio in their greatest years, winning seven trophies in three years.   This is the story of Sweden's greatest ever coach and a remarkable footballing life. RIP Sven.  Timestamps: 00:20 Introduction 07:44: Humble beginnings and discovering football 13:25: Breakthrough with Gothenburg 15:51: Moves around Europe 17:50: The first foreign England manager 25:20: A calm demeanour in the hysterical noughties media 31:37: An English culture clash 34:08: Love affairs and the News International phone hacking scandal  38:19: Flirting with other jobs and the ‘fake sheikh’ 45:31: Simon’s take on interviewing Sven 49:35: Penalties misery and protection of players 52:58: The end of England 55:16: The Scam move to Notts County 57:43: Naivete and a move away from European football 1:02:05: Sven reveals he has cancer Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Norwegian striker Erling Haaland is making football history with 63 league goals in two seasons. Tipped as a future Ballon d'Or winner, the 6ft4 speed machine seems to attract both rampant adoration and mockery. In this episode, Simon and Mehreen chronicle Haaland’s short life and rise to glory - from growing up extraordinary in a culture that prioritises equality, and the influence of his sporting family. They chronicle his choices to go for growth over short-term glory, and his move to and impact at Manchester City. During the episode, Simon and Mehreen discuss the paradoxes of Haaland’s personality - as both typical and ‘anti-Norwegian’, the awkward persona that makes him constantly go viral on social media, and his holy pursuit for longevity à la Cristiano Ronaldo - in contrast to more ‘stereotypical’ footballers such as Jack Grealish. Time stamps: 00:32: Introduction to Erling Haaland  05:37: Early years in England with a footballer father 09:46: Growing up special in an equal society 14:17: The awkward teen years and rise of the ‘anti-Norwegian’ 19:38: The influence of super-agent Mino Raiola and move to Salzburg 25:10: Rise to stardom at Dortmund 30:05: Becoming a viral social media sensation 34:37: Haaland’s Ronaldo-inspired quest for longevity 40:30: Manchester City and the precarious position of being Number 9 45:93: What would Haaland do without football? Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ten Hag’s slow rise to coaching success seems to have come to an abrupt stop at Manchester United. Can the man who led other teams to glory turn the club around on his third attempt? Or is his tenure simply doomed? In this episode, Mehreen and Simon chronicle the rise and fall of Erik ten Hag. They cover the hyper-organised, football-obsessed Dutchman’s rise from middling footballer to his slow and successful rise to Head Coach of Ajax.  On the way they investigate the influence of Pep Guardiola on his coaching style and his entrepreneurial obsession with becoming a Ferguson-style football ‘CEO’. Timestamps: 00.35 - Introduction  05:50 - Childhood coaching-mindset to middling football player 11:47 - The dreamer assistant coach that thinks like a football CEO 13:54 - Assistant at Twente under Steve McClaren  16:34 - Successful stint as Head Coach with the Go-Ahead Eagles  20:37 - The influence of Pep Guardiola at Bayern Munich  24:31 - Back to the Netherlands and rise in Utrecht  27:45 - Move to Ajax - from mockery to success 32:33 - The iconic Spurs v Ajax Game, 2019 37:54 - Setting up at Man U and taking control of transfers 49:27 - Man U’s first season: Rocky beginnings or stable start? 56:54 - Staying resilient among increasing uncertainty 1:01 - The winning formula to being a good coach Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special Q&A episode, hosts Mehreen Khan and Simon Kuper answer questions from listeners around the globe. From the Olympics to the intricacies of modern football management, Mehreen and Simon tackle a wide range of topics, providing insights and sharing personal anecdotes. Join us as we explore the world of football through the lens of your questions. Timestamps: 01:25 - Discussion on the Olympics and its significance in football 06:20 - Emma Hayes' mixed Olympics with the US Women's Team 10:08 - The debate on a UK football team in the Olympics 15:02 - Chelsea's business model and financial strategies 18:12 - The controversial transfer market practices and financial fair play 21:00 - The future of Chelsea under new management 23:30 - The eternal debate: Who is the GOAT of football? 26:40 - Comparing players from different eras and the evolution of the GOAT debate 30:00 - Quickfire round: Hero or Villain? 33:08 - Reflecting on Gareth Southgate's tenure with England 36:58 - The role of modern football managers and their influence 39:35 - Speculation on Erik ten Hag's future at Manchester United 45:55 - The impact of American ownership on Premier League clubs 48:02 - Fantasy Premier League tips and Mehreen's starter squad 50:10 - The concept of "Brat" in football and notable examples 52:31 - The common traits among great footballers 54:49 - How Mehreen and Simon met and started the podcast 57:28 - Teaser for the upcoming Jose Mourinho special episode Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over the past 20 weeks, Mehreen and Simon have covered the stories of the so-called ‘heroes’ of football, as well as the game’s undercover (and not so undercover) ‘villains’. As the duo take a week off to end their debut season, they reflect on their favourite episodes so far, muse on what they’ve learned, and provide behind-the-scenes insights into the podcast.   Heroes and Humans will return on Thursday 8th August for an Olympics special. If you have any Olympics- and general football-related questions you’d like answered by Mehreen and Simon, contact us on Instagram, TikTok and X. Find us under the handle @HeroesAndHumans. Thank you for listening. Remember to recommend the podcast to your friends and family (or even your enemies) and make sure to leave a review! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tipped as one of the longshots and now England manager, Thomas Tuchel is the polarising German football coach known for his brilliance, fanaticism, and sometimes cruelty.  Simon and Mehreen cover the fascinating and complex world of Tuchel, whose career is defined by never-ending cycles of success and self-destruction. They chronicle his rollercoaster career—from early days in Germany under the shadow of Jürgen Klopp, to rises and falls at Paris St Germain, Chelsea, and Bayern Munich.  Discover how the enigmatic Tuchel’s unconventional training methods, tactical innovation towards coaching, and workaholic lifestyle lead him to become such a dividing and impressive figure of today’s football.  Time stamps: 00:30 - Introduction to Thomas Tuchel 01:03 - His unique lifestyle and beliefs 01:41 - The cycle: Success and self-destruction 02:04 - Potential candidacy for the England national team 03:21 - Early career and influences 05:33 - Playing career and transition to coaching 07:24 - Influence of Ralf Rangnick 09:09 - Innovative coaching methods and rise at Mainz ​​23:23 - Sabbatical and learning from other sports 30:14 - Terrorist attack on Dortmund's team bus 32.20 - Strained relationship with Dortmund's management 33:56 - Move to Paris Saint-Germain 34:50 - Approach to managing star players at Paris Saint Germain 36:24 - Champions League final and abrupt departure from Paris Saint Germain 38:42 - Arrival at Chelsea and immediate impact 43:26 - Winning the Champions League with Chelsea 50:26 - Personal challenges and departure from Chelsea 53:36 - Brief tenure at Bayern Munich 55:40 - Speculation on becoming England manager Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Emma Hayes, one of the most influential figures in women's football, is embarking on a new chapter in her illustrious career. After 12 transformative years as the manager of Chelsea Women, Hayes is set to take on the role of head coach for the United States Women's National Team (USWNT). This episode explores Hayes' remarkable journey, her impact on the sport, and the legacy she leaves behind at Chelsea. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Emma Hayes and her career transition 02:30 - Hayes' early life and journey into football management 05:15 - Building Chelsea Women from the ground up 09:45 - Hayes' coaching philosophy and leadership style 14:30 - Pioneering approaches to women's health in football 18:20 - Major achievements and trophies at Chelsea 22:10 - Personal challenges and growth as a leader 26:35 - Hayes' impact on the professionalisation of women's football 30:50 - The move to USWNT and future aspirations 34:15 - Legacy at Chelsea and in women's football Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special episode before the Euro 2024 final between Spain and England, Mehreen Khan and Simon Kuper answer your questions about the heroes and humans featured in the tournament. They discuss the performances of key players, why France and England have been so boring, and the perennial issues of politics, race and multiculturalism that have been a constant over the last month. Will Gareth Southgate’s controversial tenure be extended ? And why has Jude Bellingham evolved from golden boy to internet meme? How did the Netherlands go from Johan Cruyff to Wout Weghorst? And Simon refuses to self-sabotage by predicting who will win Sunday's final, but they do argue about Spain and England. Don't forget to get in touch to add your thoughts on the heroes and humans of Euro 2024 via social media @heroesandhumans.  Timestamps: 00:22 Special episode ahead of Euro 2024 final between Spain and England 00:45 Simon's experiences in Germany and reflections on the Dutch team 03:18 Talking about the final, Spain, and England 05:29 Question about Didier Deschamps staying on as French national team manager 06:24 Discussion about Gareth Southgate's future with England 13:39 Comparison of Spain and England's team compositions for the final 16:15 Political activism in football: French players' stance against the far-right 21:21 Analysis of Jude Bellingham's public perception and "villain arc" 28:28 Analysis of Euro 2024 compared to past tournaments 34:13 Question about the impact of urban planning on footballing styles 38:28 Discussion on playing styles in Euro 2024 including the Dutch shift to long-ball tactics 41:21 Predictions and analysis for the Spain vs England final 44:25 Final question about explaining Johan Cruyff to children at Taylor Swift concerts Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special pre-Euro 2024 final episode, Mehreen and Simon delve into the stories of Lamine Yamal and Nico Williams, the two young stars who have lit up the tournament and represent a new, diverse Spain. They discuss the remarkable journeys of these players, their backgrounds, and the societal and cultural implications of their success. From Yamal's record-breaking goal to Williams' impactful presence on the field, this episode is about football and so much more. Timestamps: 00:00:29 - Introduction to Lamine Yamal and Nico Williams 00:02:23 - Background on Lamine Yamal's early life and football journey 00:12:00 - Nico Williams' incredible family story and his rise in football 00:20:02 - Discussion on the significance of Yamal and Williams in modern Spain 00:26:35 - Analysis of their playing styles and contributions to the Spanish team 00:31:58 - Historical context and comparisons with past Spanish teams 00:35:03 - Issues of race and identity in Spanish football and society 00:45:07 - The future prospects of Yamal and Williams 00:50:29 - Closing thoughts and reflections on Spain's new era in football Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fifty years ago this week, Johan Cruyff took one of the most exciting teams in football history to the 1974 World Cup final. But his Holland lost to West Germany, largely because of what has gone down in Dutch history as “The Swimming Pool Affair” – a German tabloid’s front-page scoop that cost Cruyff great anguish and many hours in a phone booth calling his furious wife. We tell the story of Dutch “total football”, of the rock-star team that lived it large both on the field and off it, of the manager who was simultaneously coaching FC Barcelona, and of Johan Cruyff himself: the man who invented modern football, and fought with everybody, including with his biggest fan, Simon.  Timestamps: 00:00:29 - Introduction to the story of the 1974 Dutch national team and Johan Cruyff 00:02:23 - Explanation of the Dutch team's revolutionary playing style 00:03:19 - Background on the development of "total football" in Amsterdam 00:08:18 - Discussion of Cruyff's upbringing and early career with Ajax 00:10:05 - Cruyff's childhood and the impact of his father's death 00:11:30 - Introduction of Rinus Michels as Ajax manager 00:14:01 - Development of Ajax's new playing style under Michels and Cruyff 00:15:29 - Description of the dynamic between Cruyff and Michels 00:19:07 - Lead-up to the 1974 World Cup and the Dutch team's preparations 00:24:36 - Context of the 1974 World Cup in West Germany 00:27:02 - Description of the Dutch team's behaviour during the World Cup 00:28:17 - Cruyff's unconventional decisions in team selection 00:30:31 - Discussion of the Dutch team's appearance and iconic orange jerseys 00:33:03 - Description of the Dutch team's revolutionary playing style in action 00:36:07 - The "swimming pool affair" and its impact on Cruyff before the final 00:43:03 - The World Cup final against West Germany 00:45:55 - Aftermath of the final and Dutch reaction to finishing second 00:47:20 - Legacy of the 1974 Dutch team and Cruyff's impact on football 00:49:28 - Simon's experience interviewing Cruyff years later and subsequent fallout Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Afghan women’s national team doesn’t exist – not according to FIFA, anyway. The Taliban banned women's football when they took control of Afghanistan in 2021, forcing the team to flee the country for fear of their lives. But FIFA now refuses to recognise the team in exile, allowing the Taliban to continue their gender apartheid. Today, the team is fighting for FIFA recognition and their place in football. Living in exile and risking their lives to play football, the Afghan women's players are determined to return to the international game. Mehreen and Simon talk to Khalida Popal, the woman who defied the country's misogynistic norms to set up the national team. She became the first female captain, coach, and executive in Afghanistan's history. This is a story of a team’s courage and comradery in the face of death threats and sexual assaults. To support the Afghan women's team in their fight for recognition, you can sign this petition and follow Khalida Popal on LinkedIn:  https://www.change.org/p/fifacom-standwithafghanwomen-recognise-afghanistan-women-s-national-football-team-in-exile-follow-alivekicking23 https://www.linkedin.com/in/khalida-popal-64a29176?originalSubdomain=dk Timestamps: 00:00:02 - Introduction to the episode about Afghanistan's women's football team 00:03:47 - Khalida Popal joins to discuss founding the team 00:03:55 - Growing up in Afghanistan before the Taliban 00:05:09 - Early exposure to football in Afghanistan  00:06:09 - Returning to Afghanistan after 2001 and facing resistance to women playing football 00:08:56 - Setting up a girls' football team at school despite challenges 00:12:51 - Men discover and threaten the girls playing football 00:14:57 - Story of a teammate forced to stop playing by her family 00:18:06 - Establishing the Afghan women's national team 00:21:07 - Negotiating with the Afghan Football Federation for recognition 00:25:16 - Difficulties of managing the national team and facing abuse 00:30:10 - Fleeing Afghanistan due to death threats 00:33:56 - Evacuating players as Taliban returned to power in 2021 00:41:29 - Current players describe obstacles they faced playing in Afghanistan 00:43:01 - Players' experiences when Taliban took over in 2021 00:45:04 - Campaign for FIFA to recognise the exiled Afghan women's team 00:48:03 - FIFA's lack of response to requests for recognition Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's bizarre how long it took Argentinians to learn to love Leo Messi. His exile from his declining homeland always made him suspect. The comparison with Maradona hung over him from the start. And why was he hardly ever as good for Argentina as he was for Barcelona? We tell the story of the world's best player's complex relationship with his own country, and how it finally had a happy end. Timestamps: 00:00:02 - Introduction 00:01:18 - Messi's fraught relationship with Argentina 00:06:24 - Messi as the embodiment of the Pibe archetype 00:11:36 - Messi's early international career and struggles with Argentina 00:18:52 - 2014 World Cup and Argentina's attempt at a "Messi strategy" 00:24:06 - 2014 World Cup disappointment and Messi's frustrations 00:29:19 - Psychoanalysis of Messi's perceived lack of Argentinian-ness 00:36:58 - Messi finally wins Copa America in 2021 00:39:35 - 2022 World Cup in Qatar and initial struggles 00:40:24 - Argentina's resurgence and Messi's leadership 00:42:15 - Winning the 2022 World Cup as a team 00:44:26 - Messi's place in Argentinian history compared to Maradona 00:46:10 - Speculation on Messi's life without football 00:48:02 - Would the hosts want to hang out with Messi? Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Gareth Southgate's tactical and managerial qualities still split fan opinion as he leads England in his fourth major tournament at the Euros in Germany this summer. But one thing that can't be disputed is Southgate's ability to unite his players in a team whose confidence has been battered by two decades of under-achievment. The former Aston Villa captain has been a leading voice against racism directed at young black English players and is arguably redefining the notion of Englishness in modern Britain.  Simon and Mehreen discuss the steps and experiences that how Southgate came to manage another golden generation of English footballers, growing up in a respectable family in South London, learning from the negatives, and bouncing back from *that* penalty miss in Euro '96. But will Gareth Southgate go down in history as a unifying England manager or just another nearly-ran?  Timecodes: 00:00:43 - Proposition: Gareth Southgate is a very laudable, commendable figure, but is he a national hero or overhyped mediocrity? 00:02:22 - Southgate's background and upbringing in Crawley 00:05:52 - Joining Crystal Palace as an apprentice and experiencing class division 00:08:31 - Southgate's playing career at Palace, Villa, and Middlesbrough 00:12:04 - First meeting with Southgate and the Euro 1996 penalty miss 00:19:25 - John Major's encouragement after the penalty miss 00:22:22 - Southgate's unfulfilled club career and disappointment 00:27:56 - Becoming England manager in 2016 after a national humiliation 00:33:06 - Resetting expectations and creating a high-performance culture 00:39:20 - 2018 World Cup and learning to love the new England team 00:43:16 - Black Lives Matter movement and Southgate's stance 00:50:00 - Euro 2020 final against Italy and the penalty misses 00:54:10 - Expectations for the 2022 World Cup and Southgate's limitations 01:00:22 - Southgate's vision of an inclusive and modern Englishness 01:04:34 - Conclusion and Southgate's potential legacy Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On the eve of Euro 2024, Henry talks about nearly 30 years of dealing with England managers and players, from Glenn Hoddle to Harry Kane - with some very kind words for Jack Grealish. Henry Winter is one of the best known and most respected journalists in the English language. Having covered football for over 38 years, conducted over 1500 interviews, and attended thousands of matches, Henry might have a story or two to share. In this episode, we talk to Henry about football journalism, how it's changed over the decades, and the rise of modern media, as well as how he navigates the complicated relationships that journalists have with players and managers. Timestamps: 00:13:06 Discussion about how football clubs and players are doing more community work than the government, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic. 00:16:22 Reflection on the changing relationship between football players and the press, from adversarial in the past to more cooperative now. 00:17:14 Discussion on the growth of fan-related content and how it reflects fans' frustration with mainstream media. 00:21:28 Admission of making a mistake by making fun of Ronaldo's weight on Twitter, learning a lesson about not personalising criticism. 00:22:39 Reflection on the moral substance of many football players, particularly in contrast to politicians. 00:27:14 Discussion about the most interesting people to meet in football, including Sir Alex Ferguson, Pele, and Jurgen Klopp. 00:29:57 Talk about who is best at discussing football itself, mentioning Glenn Hoddle and other players who didn't have much pace but became good managers. 00:30:56 Question about who one would be happy never to see again, with a reluctant mention of FIFA president Gianni Infantino. 00:31:33 Suggestion: Jurgen Klopp is one of the most misunderstood people in football, with more science behind his emotional style than people realise. 00:33:34 Discussion about England's chances in Euro 2024, praising players like Jude Bellingham, Phil Foden, and Declan Rice. 00:34:48 Talk about how social media affects players' mental health, with many going off social media due to abuse and intensity. 00:36:52 Pondering what one would be doing if not a football writer, suggesting possibly stacking shelves at Selfridges. Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jude Bellingham could go down as the best English player to never play in the Premier League, but how did he go from a shy and polite young boy from Stourbridge, to an integral part of Real Madrid's push for the Champions League title this season? This episode describes the careful and precise decisions of Jude Bellingham's career so far that have led him to the biggest stage of world football, despite still being 20 years old. From the thinking behind his shirt number at Birmingham, to rejecting England's biggest clubs in favour of a move to Germany.  Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Introduction to the podcast episode on Jude Bellingham. 00:02:07 - Discussing Bellingham being compared to the fictional character Roy of the Rovers. 00:07:00 - Bellingham's background and upbringing in Birmingham. 00:10:12 - Insights from Bellingham's youth coach Paul Robinson on coaching him at Birmingham City. 00:16:13 - Bellingham's decision to join Borussia Dortmund instead of clubs like Manchester United and Chelsea. 00:22:48 - Bellingham's time at Borussia Dortmund and his relationship with players like Erling Haaland. 00:29:27 - Bellingham's performance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar. 00:32:07 - Bellingham's transfer to Real Madrid in 2023. 00:41:44 - Bellingham's incredible goalscoring form for Real Madrid in his first season. 00:49:54 - Discussion on Bellingham's potential legacy and future. 00:57:20 - The rising trend of incredibly talented young footballers emerging at a very young age. 01:05:00 - Speculating on what profession Bellingham could have pursued if not football. Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Carlo Ancelotti, son of poor Italian farmers, could be about to win a record fifth Champions League with Real Madrid. That’s pretty good for a guy whose managerial career started with him refusing to sign Roberto Baggio. This episode describes how the nicest man in football learned how to handle the egomaniacs around him, give players the power, and always made sure that everybody ate well together. The secrets of “quiet leadership” all around the world, from the coach whose own role model is Vito Corleone. Timestamps: 0:00 - Introduction to the episode on Carlo Ancelotti 0:29 - Ancelotti's background as a player and coach who won multiple Champions Leagues 2:21 - Ancelotti's qualities of being funny and having empathy 2:59 - Ancelotti's early life and family background in a farming village in Italy 6:22 - Ancelotti's time playing for Arrigo Sacchi's revolutionary AC Milan team 9:27 - How Ancelotti dealt with egos like Silvio Berlusconi as a player at Milan 11:51 - Ancelotti's early coaching jobs and transition to a more flexible style 14:50 - Ancelotti getting fired just before halftime at Juventus  16:31 - Ancelotti's successful stint at AC Milan as a manager winning the Champions League 19:00 - Ancelotti's time at Chelsea and getting fired in the tunnel after winning the double 22:19 - Ancelotti building Paris Saint-Germain into a top club after their takeover 25:39 - How Ancelotti managed egos like Zlatan Ibrahimovic at PSG 28:19 - Ancelotti's first stint at Real Madrid and his relationship with Cristiano Ronaldo   34:49 - Ancelotti's short tenures at Bayern Munich, Napoli and Everton 36:57 - Ancelotti breaking his Champions League wins record in his second Real Madrid stint 39:41 - Ancelotti's empathetic man-management style with players like Vinicius Jr, Bellingham 44:13 - Ancelotti potentially becoming Brazil's next manager 46:27 - Discussion on Ancelotti's leadership style and legacy Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mohammed bin Salman may be the most influential person in global football, even though he doesn’t seem to like the game. In 2021, the Saudi millennial crown prince became the ultimate owner of Newcastle United, when the Premier League club was bought by Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund. The country’s de facto leader is also pumping billions into the Saudi Pro League, where Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar are on the crown’s payroll. MBS is almost certain to win the ultimate prize of hosting the FIFA World Cup in 2034, and probably also the Women’s World Cup 2035 – despite Saudi Arabia’s not very woman-friendly reputation. All this for a man who seems to have never taken an interest in football, neither as a fan nor as a player. In 2014, hardly anyone even in Saudi Arabia had heard of him. How did he go from a nobody to the most powerful ruler in the country’s history? And why did he then jump into football? Mehreen and Simon chart the life of a once unremarkable, and not very wealthy, lowly prince, who has risen to become the most authoritarian leader in Saudi’s modern history. It’s a story of a rapid rise to the top, dictatorial power, extra-judicial killings, and trillions of dollars that are being deployed to refashion the Saudi economy. With his nation’s petrodollars, MbS is now taking over golf, Formula 1, and even snooker. But MbS’s most controversial foray into global sport is the world’s most popular game. Why is MBS in football, and will he stay? Timestamps: 00:01:04 - Introducing Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) 00:01:32 - Mehreen discusses her connection to Saudi Arabia as a Muslim 00:03:02 - Discussion of MBS's background and rise to power in Saudi Arabia 00:06:44 - MBS locking up his own mother early in his reign 00:08:25 - MBS's attempts to modernise and reform Saudi Arabia 00:12:19 - MBS's envy of Qatar hosting the 2022 World Cup 00:14:13 - MBS's appearance at the 2018 World Cup opening match in Russia 00:16:15 - The murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi by Saudi agents 00:20:28 - MBS's decision to host the 2034 and likely 2035 World Cups in Saudi Arabia 00:23:24 - MBS's purchase of Newcastle United FC 00:28:10 - Saudi investments in bringing star players to the Saudi Pro League 00:32:42 - Analysis of MBS's motivations for investing heavily in football/sports 00:39:19 - Comparing MBS to Roman Abramovich's ownership of Chelsea FC 00:42:37 - What career MBS might have had if not a Saudi prince Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jürgen Klopp resigns as Liverpool manager this month after a nine-year love affair with the club and city, where he became practically a benign cult leader. Above and beyond the Champions League and English title that he won with his “Heavy metal football”, he offered a model of leadership so lacking in our time.  The most charismatic manager in football—those teeth visible from outer space, that laugh, that way with words—won't be forgotten. In this episode, we tell Klopp’s story, from his origins in the Black Forest through a long career as an unskilled lower-division footballer to finding his vocation in coaching. We ask: How can we all be a little bit like Jürgen Klopp? And what might he do next? Timestamps: 00:57 Reflecting on Jurgen Klopp's final days at Liverpool after a nine-year tenure. 01:26 Speculation on Klopp's next steps post-Liverpool. 01:45 Discussion on Klopp's transformation in appearance and style over the years. 03:21 Praise for Klopp's human qualities and leadership style. 04:07 Summary of Klopp's career achievements with Mainz, Dortmund, and Liverpool. 05:22 Insights into Klopp's challenging childhood and relationship with his father. 06:30 Exploration of Klopp's cultural and regional background from Swabia, Germany. 07:23 Klopp's spending habits and moral stance on financial matters in football. 10:46 Transition of Klopp from a player to a coach at Mainz. 11:32 Initial scepticism and humour around Klopp's appointment as Mainz manager. 16:12 Klopp's rise to fame in Germany through television during the 2006 World Cup. 18:00 Klopp's emotional farewell from Mainz. 19:44 Klopp's move to Dortmund and his impact there. 23:44 Klopp's personal approach to managing and connecting with people at Dortmund. 28:33 Klopp's eventual move to Liverpool and the cultural fit with the city. 32:41 Klopp's first press conference at Liverpool, where he calls himself "the normal one." 35:42 Klopp's impact at Liverpool, leading to a Champions League win and a Premier League title. 39:52 Klopp's energetic and emotional celebration style. 46:01 Liverpool's comeback against Barcelona in the Champions League semi-final. 49:56 Discussion on Klopp's decision to leave Liverpool at the end of the 2023–2024 season. 57:31 Speculation about Klopp's future after leaving Liverpool and his potential impact outside of football. Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hakan Şükür is Turkey’s greatest ever footballer, highest goalscorer, and still the man who holds the record for scoring the fastest goal in a World Cup after just 11 seconds in 2002. But for the last nine years, he’s been living in self-imposed exile in the US, moonlighting as an Uber driver, and having his legacy wiped from the records of Turkish football history. Turkey’s ruling AKP party has branded him a “terrorist”, and even saying his name on TV can get you the sack, as one commentator found out during the Qatar World Cup.  This is the story of a footballing hero who has suffered a humbling fall caused by politics, upheaval and a failed coup in Turkey. Şükür, whose father was born in Bosnia and his mother in North Macedonia, helped Turkey finish third in the 2002 World Cup and led his Galatasaray team to a UEFA Cup triumph in 2000 – the first European trophy won by a Turkish domestic side and the high watermark of Turkish football this century. Known as the “Bull of the Bosphorus” for his goal-scoring instincts, Şükür combined his football career with membership of Turkey’s Hizmet movement, a religious organisation led by Islamic scholar, Fethullah Gulen, which has been dubbed as part of Turkey’s “deep state”. The movement recruited lawyers, civil servants, politicians and footballers – and were active in the Galatasaray changing room in the 2000s, says author and anthropologist John McManus.  During the 90s and 2000s, Şükür is a Turkish superstar, and Gulen is allied with Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the leader of the conservative AKP party, who became prime minister in 2003 and the country’s current president. After retiring from football in 2007, Şükür became a member of parliament for Erdogan’s party while retaining his Gulen affiliations, but claims he was always a reluctant politician. In 2013, Gulen and Erdogan have a spectacular fall-out and Şükür, a national hero, is caught in the middle of an internecine struggle for power and influence in Turkey. In 2015, he flees to the US after being prosecuted over a tweet which “insults the president”. Şükür would never return to his homeland.  The episode charts the spectacular cancellation of a footballing icon whose political allegiances put him on the wrong side of an increasingly authoritarian government. In telling his story, Simon and Mehreen attempt to uncancel Hakan Şükür. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to the episode on Hakan Şükür 01:23 - Simon's first impression of watching Şükür play for Turkey 02:00 - Şükür's peak at the 2002 World Cup   04:25 - Şükür's background and early career 06:25 - The "Welcome to Hell" match between Galatasaray and Manchester United 11:23 - Şükür's performance at the 2002 World Cup, including scoring the fastest ever World Cup goal 14:04 - Explanation of the Gulen movement and Şükür's involvement 23:54 - How Şükür likely got recruited into the Gulen movement   27:52 - Şükür's career after retirement and move into politics 31:04 - Breakdown of Şükür's relationship with Erdogan starting in 2013 34:15 - The failed 2016 coup attempt and Şükür being branded a terrorist   38:20 - Şükür living in exile in the US and working jobs like an Uber driver 41:40 - Şükür continues to criticise Erdogan from exile despite threats 44:36 - Discussion on whether Şükür can ever return to Turkey Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Who is Arne Slot? Simon Kuper, who grew up in the Netherlands and remains a Dutch football obsessive, reveals all about the new Liverpool manager. Join Heroes & Humans for our first ever emergency episode to hear about the new Klopp mini-me. The Dutchman from a family of schoolteachers is Klopp without the charisma and the teeth visible from outer space. He’s even practically German (well, ten minutes’ drive from the border). We have other comparisons: Slot’s playing career as the slowest Dutch midfielder since Louis van Gaal. And Simon discusses Slot’s similarities and differences with the dreaded Erik ten Hag, and why he’ll probably do better than poor Ten Hag has done at Manchester United. But we also draw a more encouraging parallel: why Slot-for-Klopp looks a lot like Bob Paisley replacing Bill Shankly. Above all, listeners get a free lesson in how to pronounce Slot’s name.   Timestamps: 00:02 - Introduction to the podcast "Heroes and Humans of Football" 00:48 - Simon expresses excitement about a Dutch manager being hired at Liverpool 01:04 - Discussion about pronouncing Arne Slot's name correctly 02:06 - Details on Liverpool potentially paying £10 million to secure Slot from Feyenoord 03:40 - Comparison of Slot to Erik ten Hag and Bob Paisley 06:43 - Slot's background: growing up in a small village near the German border 09:06 - The potential influence of Billy Beane (Moneyball) in Slot's hiring at Liverpool 12:28 - Slot's coaching style and philosophy, similar to those of Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp 16:43 - How Slot got Feyenoord to buy into and execute his high-pressing system 18:21 - Funny anecdote about Slot laughing at Diego Simeone after beating Atlético Madrid 19:23 - Mehreen's take on Slot's appearance and communication style 21:03 - Why Slot may succeed at Liverpool, where Ten Hag struggled at Manchester United 23:35 - Slot's reliance on wingers and fullbacks suits Liverpool's current squad 25:19 - Feyenoord's limited budget that Slot had to work with 26:21 - Potential weakness of Slot being vain/having high self-esteem 27:43 - Caution about difficulty of replacing a legend like Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool 28:31 - What profession Slot would have if not football (school teacher ... again) 29:09 - Whether they would enjoy spending an evening with Slot 30:24 - Slot has to try to beat his hero Pep Guardiola at Manchester City Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From innovator to "specialist in failure," this riveting episode charts Arsène Wenger's steep fall at Arsenal. His pioneering vision had remade English football, introducing new tactics, diets, and a cosmopolitan ethos that redefined excellence. The unbeaten "Invincibles" season cemented his legend, but also marked the start of a tragic decline. As richer clubs co-opted Wenger's methods, his stubborn penny-pinching while Arsenal's debt piled up from their new Emirates stadium ended up creating fan toxicity. The famous (and hilarious) battle of "Pizzagate" at Old Trafford in 2004 signalled the start of the unravelling. With raw insight on Wenger himself, the episode explores the personal costs of his uncompromising obsession, which alienated even die-hard fans. From glorious highs battling Sir Alex Ferguson to humiliating lows like a 6-0 loss on his 1000th game, it traces Wenger's descent from manager to "specialist in failure" caricature. And yet all through it, he loved his job at Arsenal. This unsparing portrait captures the complexity of a man who remade the modern game yet stubbornly clung to his principles amid changing circumstances. The biggest victim was Wenger himself. His rise, fall, and self-reckoning are the story of a man who ended up feeling he had devoted too much of his life to football. Timestamps: 0:00 - Introduction to Arsene Wenger and framing his rise and fall  3:00 - Wenger's meteoric rise, pioneering approach and creation of the "Invincibles" 9:00- The "Pizzagate" incident at Old Trafford in 2004 signals the start of Wenger's decline 14:30 - Wenger's aversion to spending and friction with new free-spending owners like Abramovich 19:00 - Poor decisions like selling Van Persie as criticisms mount 23:00 - The Emirates Stadium move precipitating years of austerity and player sales 28:30 - Wenger becoming alienated from fans, a "specialist in failure" meme 33:00 - The lingering pain of the 2006 Champions League final loss   38:00 - How Wenger coped by doubling down on his autonomy as results worsened 43:00 - Rise of fan channels like AFTV amplifying "Wenger Out" toxicity 48:30 - Wenger's forced 2018 exit after protracted decline  53:00 - His struggle adapting to civilian life and reflections on sacrificing family 58:00 - Reassessing Wenger's complicated legacy as a transformative pioneer 1:03:00 - Looking ahead - could Arsenal find a role for him? Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From his humble beginnings in an Alsatian village to his revolutionary tenure at Arsenal from 1996 to 2004, Wenger's journey is a testament to his innovative spirit and enduring influence on English football. Exploring Arsène Wenger's meteoric rise at Arsenal, this first episode of a two-part series delves into the origins and golden years of one of the Premier League's most unforgettable managers. Starting in Duttlenheim, where Wenger grew up in the post-WWII era, his early experiences in a village transitioning back to French control from Germany set the stage for his European outlook and multilingual skills. His transition from a modest playing career to groundbreaking coaching stints across Europe, including a life-changing period in Japan, laid the groundwork for his Arsenal legacy. With three Premier League titles and a remarkable undefeated season with "The Invincibles" in 2003-04, Wenger's Arsenal redefined footballing excellence. His emphasis on a cosmopolitan approach, meticulous attention to player development, and a pioneering embrace of sports science and dietary regimens marked a departure from traditional English practices. When Simon and Mehreen reflect on Wenger's journey, a picture emerges of a man whose dedication to football verged on obsession, often at personal cost. His love for the game and commitment to innovation left an indelible mark on Arsenal and the Premier League. His early triumphs remind us of the profound impact one individual can have on a sport, a club, and its global fanbase. Wenger's story is a blend of ambition, innovation, and the relentless pursuit of excellence—qualities that made him great and defined an era of football that continues to inspire and resonate. Timestamps: 00:00 Excitement for Wenger, his legacy, and fan culture. 04:22 The French manager becomes known for his unstylish appearance. 08:20 Father's health recovered after World War 2. 11:50 University of Strasbourg graduate, economist, Arsenal manager. 12:52 Fascinated by Germany, no war hatred. Coaching. 17:57 Wenger, an economist, uses data to analyse football performance. 21:49 Wenger arrives at a small, hidden stadium. Different. 22:19 Club guest talks to woman about crucial figure. 27:41 England offers the manager a job; Wenger turns it down. 30:45 Players arrived at training under the influence of alcohol. 35:24 Wenger identifies talented players, signs them. 37:14 Wenger's scouting approach and successful player development. 40:39 The manager uses data to guide player substitutions. 42:53 Drogba's "impressive" performance against Arsenal for Chelsea. 45:34 Arsenal's confident old city, winning medals profusely. 49:09 Wenger goes from admired to joke. Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mohamed Salah is the greatest player to emerge from a football-mad part of the world that has rarely produced elite talent on the level of the clinical, curly-haired winger: the Arab world.  Born in a humble town in Egypt, the Arab world’s most populous country, Salah is an icon in Africa and the Middle East and ranks among the greatest Muslim athletes of the modern era. The 31 year-old’s breakthrough in European football may never have happened were it not for the tragic breakdown of law and order in Egypt in the aftermath of the Arab Spring in 2011. A young Salah had his dream of playing for one of Egypt's big clubs taken away from him following the Port Said stadium disaster, one of the deadliest episodes of football violence in the 21st century.  He burst onto the scene in European football with Swiss side Basel, putting in man of the match performances against Chelsea in successive cup competitions, scoring three times against the Blues who went on to sign him at the age of 22. Liverpool missed out on his signature because they didn’t think he was worth his £11 million transfer fee.  Salah suffered his worst season as a professional under totemic Chelsea coach Jose Mourinho, who loaned him off after a year in one of the worst transfer decisions ever made by the club. After a stint in Serie A, Salah returned to England with a vengeance with Liverpool in 2017 and has become an Anfield legend, winning the Premier League and Champions League under Jurgen Klopp.  Simon and Mehreen tell the story of a footballer whose impact goes far beyond Liverpool FC or football. He’s probably the only sportsman who has been empirically proven to have helped reduce racism against Muslims in the UK, with his quiet piety, prostrating goal celebrations and boundless dedication to his craft.  A generation of young Egyptians who had their freedoms and aspirations brutally suppressed by Egypt's military dictator following the end of the Arab Spring find rare hope in Salah. Liverpool’s Egyptian King is a beacon for millions who will never get the chance to fulfil their dreams in the autocratic, repressive state.  Timestamps: 00:00 Salah stands out as unique Arab footballer. 04:59 Mohammed Salah overcomes obstacles to pursue football. 06:48 Salah emerges as rising football star in Egypt. 09:48 Port Said Massacre led to end of Egyptian revolution. 15:33 Limited play, occasional impact, inconsistent performance. 18:08 Salah's successful transfers lead to record deal. 21:32 Salah's uncertain start, followed by remarkable success. 24:19 Ramos highlights need to eliminate key player. 27:33 Egypt's football journey, Mohamed Salah's pressure, World Cup politics. 30:15 Salah's impact on Liverpool's success and growth. 34:49 Muslim soccer player connects with fans, transcends stereotypes. 36:07 Salah's influence on a Liverpool fan's transformation. 40:52 Salah may end career in Arab world. 42:41 Salah's success is rare amidst Arab adversity. 46:15 Salah's existence sparks debates and political expectations. Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Born in the Catalan village of Santpedor, Pep's early life was steeped in the resurgence of Catalan identity post-Franco. His childhood, which was characterised by his village's isolation and cultural defiance, served as a prelude to a career that would challenge and redefine football norms. Pep's footballing philosophy began to take shape here, in the fertile grounds of Barça, under the guidance of Johan Cruyff, the father of total football. Cruyff saw in Pep not just a player but a kindred spirit, a conduit for his revolutionary ideas on the pitch. Pep's playing career at Barcelona manifested his cerebral approach to the game. He was slow and couldn’t tackle, but his understanding of space, movement, and tactical coherence made him indispensable. Yet, it was off the field, in conversations & debates with Cruyff, where Pep's future as a coach was being forged. Their shared vision for football's possibilities became the foundation of Pep's approach to management. Guardiola's transition to coaching was as unexpected as it was meteoric. Chosen to lead Barcelona at just 37, he embodied the club's desire for a Catalan at the helm, a move that might seem narrow-minded to outsiders but was very meaningful to those within the close-knit Barcelona family. Pep's journey had its challenges. His relationship with Mourinho, once marked by mutual admiration, evolved into a rivalry that mirrored their contrasting football philosophies. Meanwhile, Pep's commitment to Catalan independence, juxtaposed with his affiliations with Qatar & the UAE, painted a complex picture of a man navigating the intersecting realms of politics, identity, and sport. Pep Guardiola's legacy is not merely a collection of trophies but a testament to the power of ideas in shaping the beautiful game. His story is a celebration of intellectual curiosity, tactical innovation, & the enduring impact of a coach who, despite reaching the zenith of football management, remains a student of the game. Timestamps: 00:00 Pep Guardiola's legacy. 09:51 Despite his limitations, Cruyff saw potential in a young Pep Guardiola and even changed his position to central defence, despite his lack of speed and defensive abilities. 25:19 Barcelona interviews Guardiola but prefers Mourinho due to set criteria. 26:36 Pep Guardiola becomes Barcelona's head coach unexpectedly. 35:38 Pep guides Messi and recommends he become a false nine. 45:22 Mourinho and Pep have conflicting coaching styles during their time at Madrid and Barca. 48:40 Pep resigns, takes sabbatical, Tito steps up. 53:47 Pep coaches kids soccer & Nathan Redmond during games, showing non-partisan sportsmanship. 59:57 Evolution of management; Foden challenges Pep, culture change in football. 01:09:56 Catalan movement, Pep criticised for lack of consistency. 01:13:22 Guest, John Carlin, met Pep Guardiola in New York, became good friends. Dined together, mutual close friends, empathises with him. 01:20:09 Football evolution and shift in the game has been largely driven by Pep's influence, with teams adopting a fast-paced, pressing style of play. Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Roman Abramovich's story unfolds with the complexity of a man who came from Russia to reshape Premier League football. Starting life in a nondescript communist town, orphaned and adopted within an anti-Semitic Soviet Union, Abramovich's acute sensitivity to others' desires propelled him from selling rubber ducks to amassing a fortune amid the chaos of post-Soviet privatisation.  His acquisition of Chelsea FC in 2003 marked a pivotal moment, introducing unprecedented investment into the sport, but also igniting debates around sports washing and the ethical dimensions of football ownership.  Abramovich started at Chelsea painfully aware of his big handicap: he knew no more about football than the average fan. So he displayed another secret of his success: he is a good listener. Despite being the master of all he surveyed at an historically mediocre club, initially he barely opened his mouth. Under Abramovich, Chelsea claimed 19 trophies in 19 years, but underlying his tenure was a mysterious relationship with Putin and sanctions following geopolitical tensions.  After his fall from grace and forced sale of Chelsea amidst accusations and personal risks, including poisoning, Abramovich's legacy in football remains divisive. Admirers cite his contributions to the club and community. For Mehreen, as a Chelsea fan, there is a part of her that still adores him even in 2024, when it’s not PC to say that, while acknowledging the darker aspects of his oligarchy and influence.  His story is a testament to the intricate dance of power, identity, and the indelible mark one man can leave on a beloved sport. Timestamps: 00:00 Abramovich: From unknown to controversial football tycoon. 10:03 Canadian deputy PM Chryssia Freeland's book discusses Russian oligarchs, including Abramovich and Berezovsky. It mentions their deals and legal battles, with a spoiler about Berezovsky's fate. 10:40 A select few men gain immense wealth and political power in Yeltsin's Russia, controlling the country's economy and influencing political decisions through ownership of natural resources, media, and political influence. 20:39 Abramovich celebrates buying Chelsea with Evian water. 23:06 Various theories on Abramovich's purchase of Chelsea FC, including Putin's involvement and connections among oligarchs and media magnates in Moscow. 29:56 Learning how to own a football club. Exploring Europe, attending 3 games per day. 36:13 Abramovich values loyalty and shows it lavishly. 40:51 Putin suggests recruiting Abramovich for World Cup bid. 46:13 UK report links oligarch to Kremlin and Putin. 47:53 Abramovich's political and business manoeuvres regarding Chelsea, including potential sanctions and the sale of the club in light of the war. 52:59 Abramovich supports Jewish causes, including the Elad group, but faces criticism for promoting settler tourism. 01:00:01 Possible involvement in geopolitical hotspots, rehabilitation potential Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tracing Kylian Mbappé’s path from the suburbs of Paris to the pinnacle of global football. With two decades of living in Paris, Simon brings an insider's perspective to Mbappé's early life, highlighting the city's rich football culture that has nurtured talents like Pogba, Kanté, and Mahrez.  The Paris region is the biggest talent pool in global football, ahead of Buenos Aires. To understand the essence of Mbappé, it is necessary to understand the role of Parisian banlieues and artificial fields, which produce an unprecedented number of football stars. Yet, understanding the household that shaped his path is perhaps even more crucial. In the heart of Bondy, Mbappé's upbringing unfolds—a tale of ambition, community, and family. His parents, Wilfrid and Fayza, pillars of their community, guided their son with a blend of strict education and football mentorship. From his father's coaching at AS Bondy, to listening to dressing-room tactical talks from age four, Mbappé's childhood was steeped in football. Mbappé encountered broader social and political challenges, growing up as a black-Arab kid in the suburbs, against a backdrop of rising far-right sentiment in France. His early awareness of race and identity issues, alongside his family's careful navigation of fame and society’s expectations, paints a portrait of resilience and conscious ambition. As Mbappé's talent becomes undeniable, every club wants to sign the kid. The family makes the very canny choice that he’ll start his career at Monaco, where there’s a fast track to the first team, and the club also employs teachers who can school him for the Baccalauréat, the French equivalent of A-levels. Doing ‘le bac’ is non-negotiable for his parents.  From his developmental years at Monaco to his record-breaking move to PSG, calculated decisions shaped his journey. Insights into Mbappé's personal growth, interactions with football legends, and his impact at the World Cup provide a glimpse into his evolution from a promising talent to a global football icon. Timestamps: 00:00 Paris suburbs & footballing legacy. 08:48 Mbappé's diverse family, community pillars. 15:24 Mbappé meets Ronaldo, Zidane, awestruck by car. 19:03 1998 World Cup, racism controversy, young player. 21:54 Far right leader criticised nonwhite French players. 28:15 Mbappé faces rigid hierarchy, navigates his place in the dressing room. 31:31 Skilled footballer with versatility and tactical acumen. 38:36 Mbappé surprised by World Cup success, humbled by celebration. 44:49 Mixed reception in France for wealthy black celebrities. 48:31 Connecting with a frustrated young French generation. 53:34 Messi competes and pushing each other's performance. 01:00:08 Mbappé's potential to surpass football legends discussed. 01:03:18 Tune in next week for Roman Abramovich. Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Simon Kuper and Mehreen Khan take the heroes of football and show you the human behind them. Uncovering the very strange journeys some of them have made to the place where we got to see them, their life stories, and the societies that gave birth to them, we get to know these football people through a new lens.  The two hosts love football in very different ways. Is the World Cup just for football tourists trying to pretend they love football just as much as we do? That’s what Mehreen says, commenting on Simon having been to the last nine World Cups. Follow us across socials, at @heroesandhumans, and visit heroesandhumans.com to sign up for our newsletter. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices